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Thread: mouth ulcer?

  1. #1

    mouth ulcer?

    Hello,

    I am new to the hobby, a relatively new member and this is my first post but not a happy one.

    I just finished building a 5300 gallons pond with Draco Solum25 & midi bio filtration. It has only been running for about 5 weeks and water has just about become clear now. I had 50 small koi (15-20cm) in a small pond last summer but lost most of them to the herons and only 3 survived through the winter while the new pond was built. One of the 3 developed a "mouth ulcer" and died last weekend. I just found that another fish has also developed similar "mouth ulcer" and beginning to swim in a tired manner. see picture below. What is it and how it can be treated in the pond? I have added 10 new small koi 2 weeks ago and a further 30 small koi only yesterday. I am concern that this could be contiguous and spread to the new fish which has cost me a bundle.

    Please help.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    40 + fish in a 5 week old pond you are gunna have a massive fight on your hands with NPS . .
    I can't see any pictures

    First things first we need test results please list all results . Also test your tap water and add these results to
    How do you declor your water for the pond

    How is the pond constructed do you have any cement any where ie coping stones that could be leaching in to the pond

    Is the pond fiberglass wonder if it wasn't sanded down correctly they could have caught them selves or any other sharp/hard objects And bacteria has found its way in

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    Last edited by Ajm; 22-07-2021 at 12:59 AM.
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  4. #3
    You had 50 small fish last year and all bar 3 died? So are the 50 in the new pond also new fish? Think you might be heading the same way as last year unless you work really hard on your water, patience is a big asset in koi keeping. As noted above by AJM it wound be helpful to have current parameters to understand where you are but I’d assume you’re heading for big problems with ammonia and nitrites

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  6. #4
    Hi AJM and Djstiles999

    Thank you for your reaction. I am still learning and trying to load pictures correctly. When I last tried, they somehow count one photo as equivalent to hundreds of thousands of words. I think I manage to attach a pdf this time.

    Actually I lost most of my small koi last Autumn to herons just over a 2 week period but did lose 6 due to my neglect during the new pond build between January and April this year.

    My pond build
    • 2 feet in ground and 2 feet above ground with a 2.8 meters wide 33.04mm thick treble laminated toughen glass infinity window.
    • 1.00 mm rubber liner. Not difficult to install and not difficult to make it water tight with the infinity window. No leakage first time.
    • Flat concrete base with 2 x 4 inch bottom drains and air bubbles. Air pump XP60 litres per hour. Bottom drains doing a good job with very little or no debris being deposited to all sides and corners.
    • 2 x 2 inch returns - 1 about 50cm below water level and the other on opposite sides of the pond at 60cm below water level. This create a very nice slow swirl of the water.
    • No skimmers installed yet because I was sold a Certikin which I would change to another type later.
    • Concrete blocks - flat orientation from bottom of pond to surface ground level and then vertical to inner part of the wall. Bricks to the outside making it 215mm thick wall all round.
    • Coping stone is yet to be installed.
    • There are no exposed concrete and no rough surfaces for the fish to damage itself.
    • The pond is exposed to full sunshine about 5-6 hours a day currently.


    Filtration
    • Draco Solum 25
    • Draco Midi bio running with about 110 litre K+ media and XP80 air pump. Media is just about to mature but not quite yet because it is struggling a bit to keep the algae bloom at bay in the last few days of full sunshine.
    • 2 x 200 litres Varipump - currently running at 70% each
    • 2 x EVO55W UV clarifier


    Water is piped to wash the drum directly. Through splashing of the water during each drum wash, a certain amount of water is added to the pond water of about 10mm per day. Fresh water added are not dechlorinated. I have used the same water source from tap direct to previous pond (sometimes 100% change) without issue in the last 20 years. Maybe I was lucky!

    Water tested just now -
    Ammonia - Yellow 0,0 mg/l
    Nitrite - less pink than 1st sector of 0,5 mg/l. I give is 0,4 mg/l

    The koi in question is swimming with other fish and appear to be ok today.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #5
    I meant the varipump is 20,000 per hour.

  8. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Chlorine will burn think about your eyes when you go to the swimming baths. It could well be the problem mate. Get some dpd4 tablets and check ASAP. Also buy some st (sodium thiosulfate) cheap as chips and can't od fish. Just add a table spoon when you do water change. Woth covid water company's have added more

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    Freddyboy the legend

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  10. #7
    Fantastic, many thanks. Will get them tomorrow.

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  12. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Not saying that is the whole problem mate but needs ruled out and is also best practice going forward for Fish health

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    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  14. #9
    That looks a tidy set up. The mouth rot is pretty severe and I’m not sure how saveable your fish is I’m afraid. If you do a search on the forum you should find a number of suggestions and possibly find something you wa to to try

  15. #10
    Cannot agree more. I have a lot to learn.

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  17. #11
    There are a few useful books available too, a lot of people have Duncan Griffiths book which is a bit dated (and talks about chemicals you can no longer buy) but a good starting point, I refer to it every time I have a fish health problem

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  19. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koi and I View Post
    Cannot agree more. I have a lot to learn.
    We all do mate but this forum is great for help and banter.

    As dj says loads a book and also this webpage is my bible and also he is a member on here fantastic knowledge Home

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    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  21. #13
    Well said Jonathan

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  23. #14
    Just an update.

    I did nothing because the pond was clearing well and now I can see the bottom 4 feet 4 inches deep very well. However you can still see micro bits in the water at very close up. I assume it will further improve when the bio filter mature completely. Any suggestion on how to polish the water further? Thinking of creating a bog filter being pump fed from the skimmer (to be installed) and then gravity flow back into the pond.

    The damaged fish seems to have recovered with a "deformed lip" but eating and swimming well together with other fish.

  24. #15
    How are your parameters, have you got the nitrite down below 0.2?

  25. #16
    Measurements taken this morning with Colombo test kit. This kit's colour chart measure in steps of 0.5 mg/l

    Ammonia as before at 0 mg/l
    Nitrite is improving with very light pink compared with the colour chart. I am guessing it to be closer to 0.2 mg/l or maybe less.
    I will carry out all other measurements during the weekend.

    Fish are very lively and eating very well producing a lot of waste. The pond setup seems to be working very well. The two returns at different depth creating a slow swirl are assisting the aerated bottom drains sucking all the waste with very little or no settlements around all the bottom corners and around themselves. Even without the skimmer being installed, leaves are also being sucked out when they dropped to the bottom. The bio filter I believe is still maturing and water is continuing to become clearer daily but at a slower rate.

    Have a nice weekend yourselves.

 

 

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