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Thread: Lethargic

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Lethargic

    Already written it out once and it disappeared, so facts are large kohaku jumps out of pond on to dirt seen straight away and quickly returned covered in fine dirt, swims off, feeds albeit not much, now found over the past couple of days laying on it's side on the bottom. Netted and swims off happened 3 times now, no external marks or damage, is it shocked or what.



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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai samp09's Avatar
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    You need to test your water parameters to see if there is anything out of the ordinary and do scrapes on the fish. No one will be able to help you without this information. Sounds like you could have parasites though causing the fish to flick in the first place.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Bit stuffed then as I don't think I have anything to test the water with and never scraped a fish, but presume you need a microscope to identify any problems.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Managed to find a test kit, Kockney Koi one, it is a bit dated but I've never had problems with water quality here. Done the necessary tests and everything is perfectly in order, with all tests giving perfect results. I don't have any problems at the moment with any other fish, I will say that I have lost a couple of jumpers over the past 16 years in this pond. Wife said matey was swimming around at 8 this morning as normal but since has gone down on the bottom a couple of times, however get him in the net and he swims off and has taken a couple of feeds today, don't want to prolong it if he is suffering but at the same time don't want to euthanize if it's just shock, and he might recover, he was perfectly OK before his excursion in to the flower bed.

  5. #5
    If the test kit is old, could well be giving you false readings.

    Hope the fish recovers.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Possibly but it could be giving me readings which showed a situation which could lead me to believe I had high levels of ammonia, chlorine nitrates and all the rest, not giving me good readings? I am not an expert but I sometimes wonder if some enthusiasts keep their fish in such clinical conditions that the immune systems of the fish is compromised, and they can't naturally cope with an infection. I was only looking the other day, bottles and bottles of fish health products, mainly LFH ? which have not seen the light of day for eons, do they last or is it time to dispose of them.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Would you take our of date medications

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Johnathan

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    As there are no dates on any of the products, who knows if they are out of date?? I take it tat is what you meant.

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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    How cold is your pond? How deep is your pond?

    Just wondering if the sudden cold spell may've affected your fish especially (I'm thinking about it laying over on its side rather than jumping out) if your pond has rapidly dropped in temperature recently.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    As there are no dates on any of the products, who knows if they are out of date?? I take it that is what you meant.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Whether he damaged himself internally, who knows, but he is the only one acting strangely

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Pomster's Avatar
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    Give the koi a few days and see what happens, Is there anybody who could look at the pond for you?

    In the mean time it would be good practice to buy an in date test kit, buy a microscope and learn how to use it.

    after all, we are water keepers first, koi keepers second
    Not to read a newspaper makes you uninformed. But to read a newspaper makes you misinformed

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    How cold is your pond? How deep is your pond?

    Just wondering if the sudden cold spell may've affected your fish especially (I'm thinking about it laying over on its side rather than jumping out) if your pond has rapidly dropped in temperature recently.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    2M deep of which I would say half a metre is out of the ground so obviously I have a metre and a half below ground. I went out last night about midnight with a torch and was worried that there were several more just laying about, a couple just floating, but shot off when touched with the net. I fully expected to find most, if not all floating today, but they are all swimming around as normal. Bit of a cold snap as I'm sure you are, or will be getting, must be so confusing to them, one minute lovely and warm, the next cold frosty nights and mornings, must wreak havoc with their metabolism. I think it will be a case of suck it and see, whether the jumper will come around who knows.

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkapuss View Post
    Managed to find a test kit, Kockney Koi one, it is a bit dated but I've never had problems with water quality here. Done the necessary tests and everything is perfectly in order, with all tests giving perfect results. I don't have any problems at the moment with any other fish, I will say that I have lost a couple of jumpers over the past 16 years in this pond. Wife said matey was swimming around at 8 this morning as normal but since has gone down on the bottom a couple of times, however get him in the net and he swims off and has taken a couple of feeds today, don't want to prolong it if he is suffering but at the same time don't want to euthanize if it's just shock, and he might recover, he was perfectly OK before his excursion in to the flower bed.

    Whilst its obvious something is up with your Kohaku, there is plenty more than can be done before talking about euthanising it. By spending around £100 on a microscope and learning how to use it, to then seeing what you find would potentially save all your fishes lives if you find they are riddled with parasites. There is plenty of treatments available to save even the most sickest of koi.

    As mentioned, get a new in date test kit to begin with, a cheap thermometer off eBay for about £5 will give you a temp reading which you can monitor if rising or falling rapidly, and a microscope or you may be able to have someone from a local koi shop come and scrape fish for you at a cost. I would imagine it would be cheaper to buy your own microscope and learn though unless you are friendly with someone who will do it for free, and it's also a good skill to have. Even if you don't necessarily recognise what you are seeing, by adding a picture on here people will advise and also help with learning how to use the microscope in the first place. Fish are living creatures we have chosen to home so its our responsibility to do our upmost to look after them like any other pets.

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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I echo what Samp said.

    In terms of the microscope, they are normally going second hand on here/eBay for about £50. I know it's yet another thing to buy, but it's a one off cost and should hold its value if you ever sell it.

    They are very useful to have. I thought something was up with my fish, did a scrape on just one (I did it on my Chag whilst it came up to feed, so didn't even have to net it).

    Had a look and the poor thing (along with, I'm guessing, all the other fish) was riddled with Trichodina. I'm now just waiting for temps to come up and will be pp'ing my pond as soon as I can.

    Were it not for the scope, I'd still be none the wiser.

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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 08-04-2021 at 11:55 AM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  20. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    I must agree and will have a look for said equipment, unfortunately Koi keeping is not a recognised and popular hobby here, and to obtain anything from the UK is an absolute nightmare at the moment, even dealers are having problems sending stuff, most of them have given up, let alone joe bloggs selling a scope on ebay, still as I've been informed, that's the way it is. I am glad to say that the day has warmed up quite considerably and everyone including jumper is on the move again.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Is this what I need

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Pomster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkapuss View Post
    Is this what I need
    A Apex practitioner is a popular scope, and you can buy the adaptor for your laptop relatively cheaply
    Not to read a newspaper makes you uninformed. But to read a newspaper makes you misinformed

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai sparkapuss's Avatar
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    Looked for the one you mentioned, not available here, and as stated before, delivery from the UK is a joke at the moment, the one I have pictured is on eBay France at 50€ + 20€ postage, but it is on auction, if that will do it is supposed to be a Karl Kaps make. Auction due to end tomorrow if you think it's suitable I'll start bidding.

 

 
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