Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 82
  1. #1

    koi deaths, chilodonella detected and swollen mouths and ulcers. how best to treat ?

    water temp currently 10c
    have had a number of ulcerations on my koi and swollen mouths that they have had for 3 months during summer.
    have been desperately trying treatments in summer to eradicate problem with little success. fluke treatments beginning of summer fluke solve and then flubendazole, then fmg treatment 3 months ago. but since fmg treatment fish have had ulcers which havnt been healing. all scrapes showed nothing until now. many water changes.
    with small amount of chilodonella on dead fish today.
    salt level currently .3% with kusuri acriflavin in for 4 days. (added to help ulcers and bacterial infection before chilodonella found today)
    I visited local vet 10 days ago who prescribed me baytril antibiotics to inject ill fish for 2 week course of treatment. showing slight improvement but nothing brilliant. currently injecting 8 various size koi.
    3 weeks ago i tried to raise the salt level but only got to 0.4%. fish where extremely stressed and 2ft orfe died with no visible signs. am thinking oxygen starvation possibly damaged gills? reduced salt down to .3 (Have always had dedicated air pump and air stones and several water inlets aerating pond)
    I know my options are limited due to temp
    I have not tried pp or chloramine t .
    I have no way of heating outside pond.

    recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

    5000gal pond. water parameters normal. 40 koi outdoors.

    attached is pic of koi I lost couple of weeks ago with signs similar to other ill fish in pond. the one that died today was small hariwake which had been getting antibiotic injections for past week and I thought was fully recovered, with no visible signs but with 2 chilodonella found on scrape today


    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by climbalot2004; 13-10-2020 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #2
    I cant believe chilonodella has appeared from nowhere has the temp has dropped. been nothing on 30 scrapes for 3 months. the vet took scrapes from 2 of my fish last week. nothing !

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    Hi climbalot, I'm so sorry to hear that things have not improved for you since you first wrote about your problems on your other thread back in September. As you have followed Feline's advice to contact the Bridge Vet Group and have actually had input from them, I am thinking you now need to speak with Paula Reynolds at Lincs Fish Health. Her email address is koidoc@talktalk.net if you would prefer to write initially.

    Do you have any photos or video of the Chilodenella you found on your scrapes that you could share?

    Looking back at your previous thread I can see that I didn't answer your question about polycarbs. My apologies. I was indeed referring to rigid 35mm poly carb, and have written about my covers and where I purchased them in this thread here:
    https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-carp-cha...ost353466.html

    Sorry I can't offer more help myself regarding the health problems, but the fish in the photo above has a number of issues with it's mouth, dorsal fin and abdomen so there is something really nasty going on, and you may need to get your water analysed by LFH to see if there is a systemic bacterial infection throughout your pond. Do please keep us informed of how things progress.
    Last edited by Koiz; 13-10-2020 at 06:12 PM.
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  4. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    Chilodenella can sometimes be confused with Tetrahymena and vice versa.

    Tetrahymena are usually present in ponds but tend to be in the organic debris. When found on a fish it could be a sign that the fish is really poorly so has been spending a lot of time sat on the bottom.

    The reason I'm wondering about Tetrahymena is that they can invade internally and cause issues with eyes, which is what you had with another fish. Please take a look here for an overview:

    https://www.koisale.com/fish-parasites-p1.html

    This link will take you to a Koiphen thread about identifying these two parasites:

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app


    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Koiz; 13-10-2020 at 05:29 PM.
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  6. Thanks climbalot2004 Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #5
    hi koiz
    thankyou very much for your reply. i will certainly look at the threads you have provided. I was not actually 100% sure the things I found on the microscope where chilodonella. they where small round oval jelly bean type things but where def not any of the other common parasites and chilodonella where the nearest thing to them. will investigate further on what you have said. thankyou

  8. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #6
    hi koiz i forgot to say I did speak on the phone to Paula Reynolds from Lincolnshire fish farms 10 days ago just after booking an appoint with the vet for antibiotics. she said she could send me a swab test kit by post to return to her by post and then she would send me a report for the vet to identify the strain of bacteria in order to recommend the most appropriate antibiotic for the vet to prescribe. but because of time restraints i.e. the fish would have almost completed a course of antibiotics by the time I got a report analysis back I thought it prudent to go with what the vet recommended first and see if it worked or not. if you see what I mean.

  10. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  11. #7
    Hi Koiz.
    also the fish appeared healthy swimming about but when I found it today it was dead on the bottom amongst leaf debris. and could possibly have picked up the Tetrahymena then. but would certainly be very helpful not having to treat for chilodonella when temps low and my pond full of salt.

  12. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    Thanks for letting me know that. May be worth another chat with Paula now with a view to sending a koi in for autopsy?

    How many more are looking ill still?

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  14. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #9
    hi
    i have 3 large ones 18inch, 16inch,14inch badily ulcerated, and fins eaten away for several weeks and 3 smaller ones 9 inch with mouth swellings and lumps which i am of the opinion is contagious
    when I spoke to Paula last she wasn't interested in my dead fish she said no use examining them just swabs from live ones. I dont know .
    am frustrated with dead fish today. he looked strong and healthy. gin rin hariwake 10inch, growing big. first started little flashing just a week ago, found a small swelling on his lip. treat with antibiotics . was looking well only had one injection to go then found him dead on the bottom today very unexpected. have got a indoor QT coming tomorrow was gonna bring him indoors tomorrow.

  16. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    I can quite imagine how frustrated and upset you're feeling. Did the vet visit you pond side and do any tests or examinations? What was their diagnosis?

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  18. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #11
    also i was thinking if i did identify a specific bacteria in the pond. how would you treat? it wouldnt be practical cathing and injecting 40 koi every 2 days for two weeks. and due to the temperatures there is a high prob they wouldnt be successful anyway. what do you think?
    i might write all my concerns down and write to paula has you suggest and se what her opinion is ?
    many thanks

  20. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    That's exactly what I'd be doing in your shoes! koi deaths, chilodonella detected and swollen mouths and ulcers. how best to treat ?

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  22. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #13
    no I took two of my large poorly fish to her. she took scrapes for parasites and gave them injections and showed me how to inject them.
    she was gonna provide a certain type of antibiotic but when she checked she said they had none in stock and provided what they had baytril.
    several more fish became poorly and I have rang for more injections which i got but has been hard work. Takes her a few days to reply, its has if she's not interested. not convinced of her expertise on koi but only vet in my area who has any knowledge .

  24. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  25. #14
    Hi Koiz
    thanks for your help and advice
    very much appreciated.
    thanks

  26. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    I couldn't find any vets in my area to help me when I needed it so you're a step ahead of me there! Baytril is a broad spectrum fluoroquinolone antibiotic that works on gram negative and positive bacteria so it's a good choice if you don't know exactly what you're dealing with but it normally makes a fairly quick improvement if it's the right one. Hard to feel reassured if the vet didn't show real interest in your fish. Paula is so passionate about fish it just makes dealing with her a totally different experience.

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Koiz; 13-10-2020 at 07:48 PM.
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  28. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #16
    nice to know. to be honest my 3 big poorly fish arnt looking great.
    will write my stuff down and send her a message see what she says.
    many thanks

  30. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    Quote Originally Posted by climbalot2004 View Post
    Hi Koiz
    thanks for your help and advice
    very much appreciated.
    thanks
    You're most welcome. I'm not much help in this situation, but just being able to share what's going on can sometimes help you formulate a plan!

    Just another thought, are you checking your params daily to ensure those aren't causing additional stress on the fish?

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  32. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  33. #18
    yes checking water parameters daily.
    your very right its been very helpful talking through my options. sometimes when you try everything and you are just totally stuck, your fish are poorly and dying and you dont what to do its nice to talk to genuine people who have experience dealing with similar things.
    this afternoon to be honest I was totally burned out.
    many thanks

  34. Thanks Koiz, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  35. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    I've truly been there! It's so hard when you're doing all you can within you're current knowledge and experience, and with sometimes limited facilities and financial constraints or supply chain disruptions. Things can turn on a dime with fish, so you feel under tremendous pressure. I've spent countless sleepless nights reading everything I could! Fish are particularly hard because they are outside so you're dealing with the elements beyond your control too. Having an internal QT setup will help enormously. Wish I had one!

    I'm keeping everything crossed you'll be able to get to the bottom of this terrible situation very soon and not lose any more fish. Hard for anyone who doesn't keep fish to understand the relationship you build with them! At least here you know we all share your passion koi deaths, chilodonella detected and swollen mouths and ulcers. how best to treat ?

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  36. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  37. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Cambs
    Posts
    850
    Thanks / Likes
    1406
    Hang in there and don't give up. koi deaths, chilodonella detected and swollen mouths and ulcers. how best to treat ?

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  38. Thanks climbalot2004, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:48 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2020 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.