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13-10-2020, 07:20 PM #21
I can quite imagine how frustrated and upset you're feeling. Did the vet visit you pond side and do any tests or examinations? What was their diagnosis?
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13-10-2020, 07:24 PM #22
also i was thinking if i did identify a specific bacteria in the pond. how would you treat? it wouldnt be practical cathing and injecting 40 koi every 2 days for two weeks. and due to the temperatures there is a high prob they wouldnt be successful anyway. what do you think?
i might write all my concerns down and write to paula has you suggest and se what her opinion is ?
many thanks
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13-10-2020, 07:26 PM #23
That's exactly what I'd be doing in your shoes!
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13-10-2020, 07:33 PM #24
no I took two of my large poorly fish to her. she took scrapes for parasites and gave them injections and showed me how to inject them.
she was gonna provide a certain type of antibiotic but when she checked she said they had none in stock and provided what they had baytril.
several more fish became poorly and I have rang for more injections which i got but has been hard work. Takes her a few days to reply, its has if she's not interested. not convinced of her expertise on koi but only vet in my area who has any knowledge .
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13-10-2020, 07:37 PM #25
Hi Koiz
thanks for your help and advice
very much appreciated.
thanks
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13-10-2020, 07:43 PM #26
I couldn't find any vets in my area to help me when I needed it so you're a step ahead of me there! Baytril is a broad spectrum fluoroquinolone antibiotic that works on gram negative and positive bacteria so it's a good choice if you don't know exactly what you're dealing with but it normally makes a fairly quick improvement if it's the right one. Hard to feel reassured if the vet didn't show real interest in your fish. Paula is so passionate about fish it just makes dealing with her a totally different experience.
Sent from my SM-N910F using TapatalkLast edited by Koiz; 13-10-2020 at 07:48 PM.
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13-10-2020, 07:47 PM #27
nice to know. to be honest my 3 big poorly fish arnt looking great.
will write my stuff down and send her a message see what she says.
many thanks
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13-10-2020, 07:47 PM #28
You're most welcome. I'm not much help in this situation, but just being able to share what's going on can sometimes help you formulate a plan!
Just another thought, are you checking your params daily to ensure those aren't causing additional stress on the fish?
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13-10-2020, 07:56 PM #29
yes checking water parameters daily.
your very right its been very helpful talking through my options. sometimes when you try everything and you are just totally stuck, your fish are poorly and dying and you dont what to do its nice to talk to genuine people who have experience dealing with similar things.
this afternoon to be honest I was totally burned out.
many thanks
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13-10-2020, 08:11 PM #30
I've truly been there! It's so hard when you're doing all you can within you're current knowledge and experience, and with sometimes limited facilities and financial constraints or supply chain disruptions. Things can turn on a dime with fish, so you feel under tremendous pressure. I've spent countless sleepless nights reading everything I could! Fish are particularly hard because they are outside so you're dealing with the elements beyond your control too. Having an internal QT setup will help enormously. Wish I had one!
I'm keeping everything crossed you'll be able to get to the bottom of this terrible situation very soon and not lose any more fish. Hard for anyone who doesn't keep fish to understand the relationship you build with them! At least here you know we all share your passion
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13-10-2020, 08:12 PM #31
Hang in there and don't give up.
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13-10-2020, 08:20 PM #32
thanks
much appreciated
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13-10-2020, 08:54 PM #33
hi koiz
could I ask you something else
you may be able to help or not.
I have a 10 inch koi indoors, 18c. it has started spiralling continually without stopping, over and over and over 24 hours now. I separated him he is on his own. I've tried salt at .3. just continues bent over spiralling.
have you heard of this. is there anything you could suggest.
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13-10-2020, 09:20 PM #34
That's sounds very distressing. When you say spiralling do you mean it's struggling to stay upright so keeps rolling over, or is it being moved around by the flow of water in the tank as it's too weak to swim against the flow? Would you be able to post a link to a video of what its doing?
Sent from my SM-N910F using TapatalkLast edited by Koiz; 13-10-2020 at 09:42 PM.
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13-10-2020, 09:44 PM #35
Hiya climbalot.
Unfortunately you’re really up against it now with temperatures.
Below 15-16C antibiotics have very little effect unfortunately. This might be why you are getting a poor response.
Is there anything you can do to heat your pond, or get hold of a tank big enough to put the poorly fish into to heat them?
Fish with severe mouth rot etc. are simply not going to come through the winter unheated as they cannot heal.
Bear in mind that parasites found on dead fish might actually not be significant findings.
You shouldn’t really be getting a stress response from the fish when you went up from 0.3% salt. Were you using a salt meter to be sure of the amount?
The death of your orfe could point towards an oxygen problem, maybe caused by gill damage. Any fish with seriously damaged gills already I’m afraid are unlikely to survive no matter what you do.
It would be a very good idea to get a bacterial culture and sensitivity done as you’ve been advised to do- it would be helpful to confirm whether this is Aeromonas, and if so what it’s sensitive to. It won’t necessarily be sensitive to Baytril, but that was not a bad choice to use pending lab confirmation. You should avoid taking swabs from fish who have been having the injections in the past few days as that can mess up the culture results.2016 new 6000 gallon pond
https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construc...ghlight=feline
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13-10-2020, 10:36 PM #36
hi feline
yes i was using a salt meter.
I contacted vet like you advised re antibiotics.
have ordered a further q tank air pump and water pump thats coming tomorrow (12 days delivery) although i know my larger fish just wont manage in a smaller tank. have been injecting 8 koi for the past week and have been waiting to see if current antibiotics work before testing and trying more. will be contacting Lincolnshire labs tomorrow on advice from koiz
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13-10-2020, 10:42 PM #37
hi koiz
yes it is distressing. not going with flow just bent over turning spinning contiously thinking might be response to bacteria caught from other fish or antibiotics or i just dont know.
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13-10-2020, 11:01 PM #38
Gosh. This rather sounds like some kind of cerebral damage that may perhaps be caused by a toxin in the water or parasitic or bacterial damage to the brain. The poor thing. I'm guessing it's not eating at all? How long has it been like this? How fast are it's gills moving - does it look as though it is struggling to breath?
Paula may be able to recommend a water additive to counteract anything that may be leaching into the pond such as her Pond Detox Formula (PDF). She's got a range of things that may be able to help you but she'll be able to advise on this. Worth taking a look at the LFH product page though so you are familiar with them: http://www.lincsfishhealth.co.uk/html/products.html
I really do think you should video this fish, in fact, do a video of your filter, pond and the surrounding area just in case this gives some clues as to what may be going on. If you can upload it to YouTube you can put a link to it on this thread. Paula may want a sample of your water sent in, as well as fish swabs.11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade
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13-10-2020, 11:12 PM #39
the attached pics are the hariwake that died today following antibiotic treatment, very minor visible signs.
the kohaku developed that blister very quickly whilst in qt. 2 days ago. looks horrible. gave him antibiotic injection put him in seperate tank with .3 salt and acriflavin and the blister dissapeared almost immediately to reveal small wound/ulcer. he appears very well at the moment. fingers crossed.
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13-10-2020, 11:14 PM #40
hi video of tumbling fish wont upload but been about 2 days constant now.
it has never been in the pond just in QT
Running heater at low temp?
Covering the pond with polycarb should be enough to stop water temps dipping below 6C for the most...