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Thread: Fish Fry Dying

  1. #1

    Fish Fry Dying

    So, I built a pond last year with a mixture of Koi and goldfish.

    This spring I found some eggs in the weeds, I removed them and put them in a bucket, they hatched!

    So, they are now bigger 2-3cm (some are bigger than others) I have them (about 20) in a 100 litre outside tank with filter.

    Yesterday some started dying, they tend to lie on the bottom on their side, they have white patches and red spots on the gill covers.

    I put the sick ones in a quarantine bucket. So far about four have died.

    I did a big water change on the big tank and added some FMG.

    So here is a picture of one that died today.

    Any advice would be well received.

    Thank you.

    Ljn1SMA.jpg



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Simon Fish's Avatar
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    Looks like a thick mucus covering.
    So there clearly not happy.
    So what's wrong?
    Start with all the usual water tests, ammonia, nitrite, pH.
    Chlorine. If that's all good then its test for parasites by scraping and microscope.

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  4. #3
    Thank you for answering Simon.

    Well two more of the smaller ones died last night. But the rest seem lively enough.

    I have added some tap water treatment now (pinched it from the granddaughter's indoor aquarium stuff) as well as the FMG I put in yesterday.

    I don't have a water test kit, I guess I had better go out and get one later today.

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  6. #4
    we've had about 6 goldfish grow out i think, they're all about 1-1.5" long now, they were just left to their own devices in the pond.

    so unless there are parasites, why not chuck them in the main pond if all the parameters are ok?

    but by you saying you've now added some tap water treatment, does that mean you hadn't previously?

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  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CBKOI View Post
    we've had about 6 goldfish grow out i think, they're all about 1-1.5" long now, they were just left to their own devices in the pond.

    so unless there are parasites, why not chuck them in the main pond if all the parameters are ok?

    but by you saying you've now added some tap water treatment, does that mean you hadn't previously?
    I thought about chucking some of the bigger ones in the main pond, but what would they eat? The floating Koi pellets that go in there would be too big and the big fish are greedy, the fry get goldfish flakes at the moment, which would likely disappear in 1200 litres with big pumps etc..

    And now they have something wrong with them I worry about that spreading to my Koi and goldfish which are all in very good condition. Plus the Mrs.would totally lose the plot if I killed her Koi.

    I guess if they do have parasites, the FMG should sort that out though?

    I am ashamed to say that I've never bothered with water treatment when I do a partial water change on the main pond, it's not been a problem, I think I need to think about that.

    I think I really need a water test kit, any recommendations?

  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    I thought about chucking some of the bigger ones in the main pond, but what would they eat? The floating Koi pellets that go in there would be too big and the big fish are greedy, the fry get goldfish flakes at the moment, which would likely disappear in 1200 litres with big pumps etc..

    And now they have something wrong with them I worry about that spreading to my Koi and goldfish which are all in very good condition. Plus the Mrs.would totally lose the plot if I killed her Koi.

    I guess if they do have parasites, the FMG should sort that out though?

    I am ashamed to say that I've never bothered with water treatment when I do a partial water change on the main pond, it's not been a problem, I think I need to think about that.

    I think I really need a water test kit, any recommendations?
    hi mate api test kit link https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Pond-Ma...d_asin_0_title

    i myself use ST sodium thiosulfate 10 ml for 100gallons. when topping pond up. link
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1355947477?...SABEgJeaPD_BwE
    hope this helps
    fred

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    As per Simon's post.

    First port of call is the water quality, highly likely this is the cause.

    If the water tests out perfect then the next thing to investigate would be parasites which should have been checked and identified before adding any treatment because FMG can be harsh on the fish and it also depletes the oxygen in the water which is the one thing they need plenty of when they're not well.

    FMG would also negatively affect water quality and filter bacteria which could be making the problem worse if water quality was/is the issue.

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  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    I second Fred's recommendation of the API kit, though would suggest this one that tests for Nitrate rather than Phosphate as a first off. https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwa...0343114&sr=8-2

    At this stage, Nitrate would be more beneficial to know. You can always buy a Phos test separately later. I'd strongly recommend adding KH and GH to your kit as the KH is really important for the stability of your pH and for providing the nutrients your filter bacteria need to thrive.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwa...0343313&sr=8-1

    Tip: use a 5ml or 2.5ml syringe for filing your test Vials. You can also test your Ammonia and Nitrate in 2.5ml of water, rather than 5ml, and use half the number of drops to make these 2 tests last twice as long and match better the lifespan of the PH and Nitrite tests. Doing this makes the API kit the best value for money of all the drop test kits. BUT you must be accurate with your measure, hence using the syringe!

    DPD4 tabs are ideal for testing for chlorine, and I use these fast dissolve ones:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lovibond-DP.../dp/B07MTLZGDF

    Follow Manky Sanke's guide here on how to use DPD4 and why it's so important to know your chlorine:
    https://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/ef...orination.html
    Fish Fry Dying

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  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    Please do not add any babies to your main pond till you know for certain they are not carrying illness or parasites, which really will require a scrape and scope.

    Once clear you can put them in the pond and they'll eat the algae on the sides till they can hold their own against the larger fish for pellets. You could buy 3mm sized food specially for junior fish. But please remember that koi will eat whatever they can fit in their mouths, so make sure your little ones won't become food for their parents! It's also good to make sure they have somewhere to hide that the larger fish can't access, like a piece of plastic pipe for example, just till they're grown Fish Fry Dying

    I've raised a good number of goldfish fry this way before I went koi only, and it's very rewarding seeing your babies through to adulthood. I hope you can get on top of what is wrong quickly, but I'm afraid it will take some investment in some more equipment!

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    Last edited by Koiz; 17-09-2020 at 01:14 PM.
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  17. #10
    Thanks everyone for all the advice.

    All the sick ones have now died, but the rest are swimming and eating, although I can see some mucus on some of them.

    Delivery times for the test kits are a few days so I may go to my local WOW tomorrow (day off) and see what they have, I really don't want to flush any more fish, I've had them from eggs.

    But I will definitely be getting kits as advised.

    I have a lot to read, this fish hobby is more like a water hobby LOL

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  19. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    You couldn't be more right! Take care of the water and the fish'll take care of themselves ... mostly Fish Fry Dying

    Some time spent on our resident Water Wizard's website will be a wise investment... Manky Sanke Website:
    Home

    Keep us posted on how things progress Fish Fry Dying

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  21. #12
    No dead fish today!

    OK, so I was passing Pets at Home and nipped in for some more tap water conditioner and a test kit.

    Tetra 6 in 1 test kit, I know I need a better kit as advised but I thought this may help in the short term.

    So the test going from left to right are: NO3; NO2; GH; KH; pH; Cl2

    Any opinions very welcome.




  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    Nitrites are showing as an immediate issue so a water change would be wise, but as you said - you need a better kit! It's a shame as despite how incredibly convenient these dip tests are, they can be very inaccurate Hopefully your drop tests will be here in a few days. Once they come, compare them to your dip test and you'll be able to judge how reliable that is for future use. I used to use dip tests on my aquariums, and they were a useful quick daily check that would alert me to anything shifting in the wrong direction, but I still did my weekly drop tests too I tried applying that same logic to my pond when I first had it back in 2011 / 12, but gave up after the tub ran out as too often the results were not comparable to the drop tests. Don't know why it worked better for the Aquariums, but there you have it! Perhaps it's a koi thing... nothing is ever easy
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  24. #14
    Thanks Koiz,

    So er... I didn't actually order the API drop test kit (as recommended by freddyboy)

    So, I've just been on Amazon and ordered it.

    Like you say it will be a few days, in the meantime there are no more sick fish! Well none floating or sinking to the bottom anyway.

    One thing I noticed today, they all seemed a bit moribund until I switched of the pump/filter, then they came out looking for food.

    Maybe they don't like swimming against the tide, I don't know.

    They spent most of their lives in a bucket and only recently got upgraded to a 115 litre outdoor tank with pump and filter, rocks etc. I thought I was doing them a favour, but I think they preferred the bucket TBH LOL. At least they weren't dead.

    Two of the lucky ones are in my granddaughter's aquarium and are thriving, the bigger one has started changing colour.



    I don't know if they are Koi or goldfish or hybrids to tell the truth.

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  26. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    So er... I didn't actually order the API drop test kit (as recommended by freddyboy) So, I've just been on Amazon and ordered it.
    Can I please check if you ordered the Pond Master Kit or the Freshwater Kit because you ideally need a Nitrate test and that comes with the Freshwater kit that I linked to. You also really need to know your GH and KH. Take another look back at my post #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    One thing I noticed today, they all seemed a bit moribund until I switched of the pump/filter, then they came out looking for food. Maybe they don't like swimming against the tide, I don't know.
    I think it's reasonable to assume that if the current is too strong they may find that stressful and overpowering so can you adapt the flow rates or the angle of the flow return to reduce it? Fish definitely need quiet zones, so make sure they have a choice of current and calm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    They spent most of their lives in a bucket and only recently got upgraded to a 115 litre outdoor tank with pump and filter, rocks etc. I thought I was doing them a favour, but I think they preferred the bucket TBH LOL. At least they weren't dead.
    Generally speaking, you won't find rocks or gravel in a 'formal' koi pond as they are just areas for debris to collect and unwanted bacteria to fester, or prevent flow a bottom drain. Koi are also notoriously daft and adept at finding way of hurting themselves so the less stuff you have in a pond, or tank, that they can impale on, bump against or scrape along the better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    Two of the lucky ones are in my granddaughter's aquarium and are thriving, the bigger one has started changing colour. I don't know if they are Koi or goldfish or hybrids to tell the truth.
    Very pretty fish. If there are no signs of barbells developing after 5 weeks, I believe there's a good chance it's a goldie or a hybrid. This may help:

    Koi vs Goldfish.JPG
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  28. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Can I please check if you ordered the Pond Master Kit or the Freshwater Kit because you ideally need a Nitrate test and that comes with the Freshwater kit that I linked to. You also really need to know your GH and KH. Take another look back at my post #8




    I ordered this (as recommended by freddyboy, "Supreme Champion of the Highest Order"):





    post #6


    And not this (as recommended by you):





    £27 that cost me *sigh*


    Would it be possible to just purchase a Nitrate test rather than buying a whole new kit?


    I know you both mean well.


    I actually need to do this on my main pond too, although the fish seem very healthy in there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    I think it's reasonable to assume that if the current is too strong they may find that stressful and overpowering so can you adapt the flow rates or the angle of the flow return to reduce it? Fish definitely need quiet zones, so make sure they have a choice of current and calm.

    I have diverted most of the flow out of the top i.e. the fountain bit, but there is no fountain head attached. They seem happier with that.




    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Generally speaking, you won't find rocks or gravel in a 'formal' koi pond as they are just areas for debris to collect and unwanted bacteria to fester, or prevent flow a bottom drain. Koi are also notoriously daft and adept at finding way of hurting themselves so the less stuff you have in a pond, or tank, that they can impale on, bump against or scrape along the better!

    OK, well this is food for thought, same applies to my main pond, I have plants on plastic stools in there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Very pretty fish. If there are no signs of barbells developing after 5 weeks, I believe there's a good chance it's a goldie or a hybrid. This may help:

    Well that's got me thinking, the lateral line and fins look like goldfish, the mouth and chin look like koi. Also, it's colour looks like it's going to be yellow, I have a golden yellow koi in my main pond that is a similar colour. I hoping it's a hybrid, when would be a good time to put it in my main pond?


    Also, thank you very much.

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  30. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    Yes you can buy all the tests by all the various manufacturers (API, JBL, NTLabs, Columbo ect) separately. It's no big deal if you've bought the kit with the Phosphate. That's a good test to have if you're having issues with algae or blanket weed. Just add Nitrate and the GH and KH (which you can buy together). It's good practice to test water in ponds and tanks regularly so it'll all get used eventually.

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  32. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    When you have time, a read through the Manky Sanke 'Good Water Guide' would really help you understand what and why you are testing:

    Good water guide; pt 1

    Parts 10 to 16 focus on the testing of water parameters but the whole guide is time well spent Fish Fry Dying

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  34. #19
    Thanks for all your help.

    I get mental blanket weed.

    Onwards and upwards!

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  36. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Koiz's Avatar
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    You may find you have high Nitrates and Phosphates then. You should test your tap water too. You may be surprised to find what's in that. I have high Nitrates in my source water so it's always a battle with Nitrates out the gate in my pond. After much trial and error, I now use Aquasource Resolve for Blanketweed removal and prevention.

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