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Thread: Fish Fry Dying

  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention before ... re plants on plastic stools in pond, be cautious of the type of plastic you are putting in your pond as some may leach chemicals when treatments are added, or shed micro particles that could make your fish ill over time. Pond safe plastics are:

    #2 HDPE (high density polyethylene)
    #4 LDPE (low density polyethylene)
    #5 PP (polypropylene)

    This is a good article about pond safe materials of all kinds: Toxic materials around the pond. What is safe? - Keeping Goldfish, Koi Pond Care, Garden Fish Pond Algae & Blanket Weed Solutions

    Plants are great in a pond for removing nitrates but in a Koi pond it's good to have them on a shelf, in floating baskets (personally don't like this as koi can damage themselves or break their Dorsal rays if coming up underneath them - speaking from experience!), or better still in a separate area from the pond where water from the filter flows through before entering the pond. This way nothing interferes with the floor of the pond in terms of debris removal.

    Because I don't have plants, this year I've installed 6 Biocenosis baskets as Anoxic filtration to work alongside my combi drum filter. This will help to reduce the Nitrates. These baskets sit on my shelf. Anoxic filtration works for all fish environments, indoor or out. It's very interesting and something I wish I'd known about years ago. Best source for insight is, you guessed it, Manky Sanke! (No, I'm not on commission, but Syd's website is one of the best free sources of fish keeping information on the internetFish Fry Dying)

    Anoxic Filtration

    Re fish in tank going into pond, if it were mine and the tank can cope, I'd be keeping that baby where it is till Spring so it doesn't go through a cold winter and gets the best start in life Fish Fry Dying


    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  3. #22
    Thanks again Koiz,


    I have a lot of reading to do!


    Update: No more dead baby fish, I can't see any with any obvious mucus. I carried out another partial water change (with tap water conditioner) but my test strips are still high on nitrites.

    I also ordered a tank vacuum thing from ebay because I can see uneaten food and waste matter on the bottom.

    So I figured about 8 died and I have about 12-15 left, hopefully they will survive if I keep on top of things.

    On the plus side, I tested the water in my main pond and it's all good.

    Main pond is 1200 litres with 4 goldfish, 2 koi and 1 sturgeon, they all seem in very good health.

    So, just awaiting stuff to arrive now.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    That's great news Fish Fry Dying

    If you're getting uneaten food on the bottom then definately cut back on the feeding which in turn will take some pressure off your filter which is still maturing. All food should be eaten within 5 to 10 mins. Anything left is too much!

    If you are going to overwinter these fish in their tank are you able to bring it inside or insulate it all around for the winter? Remember that the fish immune system goes off line when water temps drop below 12.8c so you need to stop feeding, or cut down to very low protein (ie wheatgerm), and stop altogether if below 10c.

    If you don't have a thermometer you can use, I highly recommend these:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/GuDoQi-Aqua...3-6caa9bba7df8

    Cheap as chips but surprisingly accurate. I usually put two in together to ensure accuracy (they're usually within 0.01 of each other), and if in doubt chuck a 3rd in! I've used these for years. They've fallen in the pond, been stood on, left out in the rain, droped and broken apart and put back together .... and they still work Fish Fry Dying

    For keeping the tank clear of debris, if you can reach the bottom with a small fine fish net (I use an 8" one but any size will do), just schoosh that along and it'll take it all out. Works a treat. Another way is to put a hose to the bottom and syphon out the water moving the hose around like a hoover, then top up with dechlorinated water and voila - tank clean and water change at the same time Fish Fry Dying


    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  7. #24
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai LouiseR's Avatar
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    Hi Goldy. Whilst 1200 litres/264 gallons is fine for goldfish, it’s not sufficient for koi or sterlet/sturgeon. The problem with such a small volume is that sooner rather than later you will struggle to maintain optimum and stable water quality - even if you manage to keep water parameters at non-lethal levels, they will tend to fluctuate, often rapidly, which will stress the fish, impair their immune system and leave them vulnerable to parasites and bacterial infection.

    Just to give you an idea of what these fish require:

    # For a koi pond - minimum starting size 1,000 gallons, ideally double that, with a stocking density of 250 gallons per fish (obviously some successfully maintain a higher stocking density than this, but their ‘X’ thousand gallon ponds are invariably over-filtered and meticulously maintained).

    # Sterlet require a minimum of 1,000 gallons, ideally double that; sturgeon require a minimum of 2,000 - 3,000 gallons - please see www.sturgeon-web.co.uk/sturgeon-care-sheet.pdf

    # It’s not just about gallonage - koi and sterlet/sturgeon require a minimum depth of 4ft, ideally 5ft - 6ft.

    None of this is intended as a criticism of you - too often some fish dealers fail to enquire or provide any advice as to whether or not their prospective customers are able to provide a suitable environment for the fish that they wish to buy.

    If, after doing a bit more homework, you decide that it would be best to, at least, re-home the sturgeon/sterlet at this stage, you can offer him/her for sale or free to a suitable home on this forum.

    Wishing you all the best going forward.

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  9. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    Thanks Koiz,

    So er... I didn't actually order the API drop test kit (as recommended by freddyboy)

    So, I've just been on Amazon and ordered it.

    Like you say it will be a few days, in the meantime there are no more sick fish! Well none floating or sinking to the bottom anyway.

    One thing I noticed today, they all seemed a bit moribund until I switched of the pump/filter, then they came out looking for food.

    Maybe they don't like swimming against the tide, I don't know.

    They spent most of their lives in a bucket and only recently got upgraded to a 115 litre outdoor tank with pump and filter, rocks etc. I thought I was doing them a favour, but I think they preferred the bucket TBH LOL. At least they weren't dead.

    Two of the lucky ones are in my granddaughter's aquarium and are thriving, the bigger one has started changing colour.



    I don't know if they are Koi or goldfish or hybrids to tell the truth.
    Freddy is the man! Api test kit all the way !


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  11. #26
    First of all, thank you LouiseR. Those are some hard facts to swallow, so I need to think about that.

    Secondly my API kit arrived late yesterday. I carried out the tests this morning.

    Results Are In:

    Phosphate: 2.00ppm

    Wide Range PH: 8.0

    Ammonia: 0ppm (or perhaps a whisker over that)

    Nitrite: 2.0 - 5.0ppm (it's hard to tell the difference between 2.0 and 5.0 on the colour chart)

    So Nitrite is the big problem. I carried out another 30% water change after the test.

    API recommend frequent water changes and adding pond salt for high Nitrite.

    So, I need to get me some pond salt.

    By the way, still no more dead or poorly fish!

    Onwards.

  12. #27
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai LouiseR's Avatar
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    API’s recommendation is correct re: high nitrite - daily water changes @ 20% to dilute (using a dechlorinator), plus add pond salt to help protect the fish.

    I can’t find a direct link to Manky Sanke’s Salt Dosage Table, but if you go to #post 7 on this thread you will find it: https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-carp-cha...ht=Salt+dosage

    The dosage for elevated nitrite is at the bottom of the table - you will see that you don’t need to add a great deal of salt to help protect your fish. Remember that the addition of salt is a short term fix, and doesn’t reduce nitrite or its toxicity - see Good water guide: pt 14

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