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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Advise needed, odd behaviour

    So for the past few weeks 4 of my koi have been sitting on the bottom of the pond but not clamped and stay there 95% of the time. I have been treating for skin flukes but I don’t think it’s related.

    Water parameters are all spot on. Fish are feeding but not actively how they would normally.

    I have been periodically scraping the fish and I have not identified anything.




    You would think from the photos the fish are swimming but they are just sat on the bottom.

    I have spoken to a couple of people individually but right now I have draw a blank and I have no idea what could be casing the unexplainable behaviour.

    Suggestions so far have been they could be simply resting. I tried reducing flow and air to reduce the current. Initially I thought they did seem more active but now they are just back on the floor.

    The other suggestion was it could be a secondary parasite, but I am not finding anything and fish are not showing any other signs or symptoms of parasites.

    So now I’m just reaching out to see if anyone else has ever experienced this. It’s definitely not their normal behaviour and seems to have started since the fluke m and ct treatment



  2. #2
    I can't remember if your pond is heated Mike, but if not could it be temp related as we've had quite a drop recently? I know my fish don't like temp swings....

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    I’m not heated no, I did wonder if it could have been a combination of temp drop, fluke treatment. It’s on the possible case list. Thanks for your input Advise needed, odd behaviour

    Have you ever experienced koi sat on the bottom with their pecs our and dorsal up.. normally if they are sulking they are clamped in my experience.


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  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Seems very odd, mine are all feeding vigorously as if it’s mid summer and it’s not exactly warm. Regarding the flow not sure they ever rest either! Has to be something to do with the treatments.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

  5. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Yeah I would have expected them to still be active and eating a decent amount. They were clearing the food within 2 minuets and I was feeding 5 + times. Now just once a day and half the amount and most of it is still around 10 minutes later.

    As said I have not seen any signs of irritation rubbing, flashing, pec flicking they look visually heathy.


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  6. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    My nice platinum Ogon has been behaving in exactly the same manner for a few weeks now. Scraped him last weekend and found a Gill fluke. So I've dosed the pond again with fluke solve. Tonight I he was coming up for food but spitting most of it out, once it had softened a bit he was a bit more enthusiastic and did actually eat some.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Mine have been doing this too but are also swimming and eating fine. I think the temp fluctuations recently are playing a part. If all params are fine, and no sign of secondary parasites on scrapes or in behaviour, and gill movements look normal, I'd put it down to temps. You could try adding some Vitalize to their water if all the fluke treatment is now over. It does seen to help them perk up in my experience.

    We are due some warmer weather so will be interesting to see if yours become more active if night time temps don't drop so much as they have been recently.

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  9. #8
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I’ve had mine do that in the past and it turned out to be costia. It’s worthwhile periodically scraping 3 or so of them just to check, costia can be easily missed if you’ve not seen it very often. I like to look at little fast moving water streams around any blobs of mucus (add a drop of pond water to your scrape on the slide and prod it a bit then look at it immediately). Tumbling tiny commas in the water streams are easier to spot than looking at static mucus IME.

    Of course it might not be parasites. I take it you’ve run through all the usual water checks including chlorine?

    I would have a check that their underneaths are looking ok if they are sitting on the bottom a lot also.

    Whilst koi sometimes sulk on the bottom in winter if they are not being fed, I’ve not really seen mine do it when temps are still well into double figures tbh.

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  11. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Mine have been doing this too but are also swimming and eating fine. I think the temp fluctuations recently are playing a part. If all params are fine, and no sign of secondary parasites on scrapes or in behaviour, and gill movements look normal, I'd put it down to temps. You could try adding some Vitalize to their water if all the fluke treatment is now over. It does seen to help them perk up in my experience.

    We are due some warmer weather so will be interesting to see if yours become more active if night time temps don't drop so much as they have been recently.

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    Yeah all seems fine with them apart from the sitting. I’ll take a look at Vitalize not used it before.

    Fingers crossed they will snap out of it. Have seemed a little more active today.


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  13. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I’ve had mine do that in the past and it turned out to be costia. It’s worthwhile periodically scraping 3 or so of them just to check, costia can be easily missed if you’ve not seen it very often. I like to look at little fast moving water streams around any blobs of mucus (add a drop of pond water to your scrape on the slide and prod it a bit then look at it immediately). Tumbling tiny commas in the water streams are easier to spot than looking at static mucus IME.

    Of course it might not be parasites. I take it you’ve run through all the usual water checks including chlorine?

    I would have a check that their underneaths are looking ok if they are sitting on the bottom a lot also.

    Whilst koi sometimes sulk on the bottom in winter if they are not being fed, I’ve not really seen mine do it when temps are still well into double figures tbh.
    Interesting with yours having costia and you thinking that was the cause. RS2000 had put this behaviour down to costia to when he had this type of sitting. So after treating did they return to normal behaviour?

    I have yet to have the pleasure of having costia so I am questioning my scraping / scoping ability. Although I do take some comfort that I do follow all of your suggested methods when preparing and looking at scrapes.

    Yes I have tested for chlorine, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, kh, GH, Phosphate

    I’m keeping an eye for sores but currently all ok Advise needed, odd behaviour


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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Yes, when I treated for costia they returned to their normal pig face activity level. My fish tend to all come to the window to look at us when we are eating at the dining table, makes me feel very guilty if their feeder is turned off. I am literally begged by chickens and koi wherever I go downstairs

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  17. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Advise needed, odd behaviour

    Fish seemed more active yesterday, gave the plat a scrape no costia but still flukes! Advise needed, odd behaviour

    Shared some videos from the scrapes for a second option also.

    Believe its just skin flukes present from what I have seen what should have made it easier to eradicate.

    Ordered some lernex pro as fluke M has not worked for me.

    Still no sores what is a positive. Really want to get this sorted before the temps drop too much.


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  19. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    These flukes are so bloody persistent, hope you get it sorted.

    I'll be doing some scrapes this Saturday, to see if the latest treatment has been a success.

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  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Indeed!

    Hope your all clear mate.

    Found this video on utube that shows costia and flukes together. As I have not had costia to date I was unsure how they compare under the scope therefore it’s more of a challenge.

    https://youtu.be/ESp45gLE1Aw

    This video gave me confidence that I would have identified it if it was there.

    Here is one of the little pesky gits!




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  23. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Indeed!

    Hope your all clear mate.

    Found this video on utube that shows costia and flukes together. As I have not had costia to date I was unsure how they compare under the scope therefore it’s more of a challenge.

    https://youtu.be/ESp45gLE1Aw

    This video gave me confidence that I would have identified it if it was there.

    Here is one of the little pesky gits!




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    I've come to dread peering down the microscope and spotting those bastids.

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  25. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    @Mikeh83 Thanks for sharing that video - really useful, especially to gauge the size of the costia against the gill fluke.

    Sorry to hear you've had to resort to the Lernex Pro but hope this'll finally sort it for you as it did for me.

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  27. #17
    going through the same odd issue since last week, veiny kohaku jumping every now and then, sometimes hanging head down, eating loads still, yamabuki sometimes sitting on the bottom. water good and the same as usual, kh slightly lower than usual, nothing on scrapes......just carry on scraping but im suspecting costia

  28. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephuk View Post
    going through the same odd issue since last week, veiny kohaku jumping every now and then, sometimes hanging head down, eating loads still, yamabuki sometimes sitting on the bottom. water good and the same as usual, kh slightly lower than usual, nothing on scrapes......just carry on scraping but im suspecting costia
    Your symptoms sound classic fluke related to me,hanging head down,jumping. not the veins though.. I thought this is more of a Bacterial infection Advise needed, odd behaviour I’m sure there maybe other issues that can cause it

    This is just from what I have read.


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  30. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai SamuraiJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Indeed!

    Hope your all clear mate.

    Found this video on utube that shows costia and flukes together. As I have not had costia to date I was unsure how they compare under the scope therefore it’s more of a challenge.

    https://youtu.be/ESp45gLE1Aw

    This video gave me confidence that I would have identified it if it was there.

    Here is one of the little pesky gits!




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They are so small and fast, thanks for the link, very informative
    Human life is truly a short affair. It is better to live doing the things that you like Inazo Nitobe

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  32. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Your symptoms sound classic fluke related to me,hanging head down,jumping. not the veins though.. I thought this is more of a Bacterial infection Advise needed, odd behaviour I’m sure there maybe other issues that can cause it

    This is just from what I have read.


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    Veiny could be anything that's stressing them out, another kohaku I have goes pink and veiny as soon as it gets netted, always has strangly enough that one is my go to fish if there's issues it lets me know but its looking fine


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