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  1. #1

    Minor emergency - high ammonia, LOW PH and VERY LOW KH. Advice please!

    Hi All, looking for some advice please.
    First off - all my fish are fine and seem happy. No changes in behavior. However I've just done a set of water tests from a new kit and nearly had a heart attack.
    I just moved from London (very hard water) to Lancashire (soft water - I now know HOW soft!). Living in London I did fairly regular ammonia/nitrite/nitrate tests, but after years of massive KH/GH and never changing PH I got out of the habit. Anyway, I've now moved and carried that on without thinking, which was very stupid.
    I've been getting fairly high ammonia and nitrate readings (0.1-0.2ppm ammonia and similar nitrate) and been wondering how to lower it, but I've just got a new colombo test kit and done all the tests and it's very worrying. My old API kit must have been well out of date.
    PH - just over 6
    Ammonia ~2ppm. Yes 2, not 0.2.
    Nitrite ~ 0.3ppm
    Nitrate ~20ppm
    KH less than 1dh.
    GH 2-3dh.
    The PH of my tap water is ~7, KH is at most 1 dh, GH strangely is also coming in at 1dh.
    So the most worrying things here are the PH and ammonia. I suspect the levels have been like this for a long time as I haven't changed anything I do for weeks, although I have been feeding a bit more the past month or so. As all fish seem fine and happy I'm not going to do anything too drastic or add anything immediately, just stop feeding and do 20% water changes every day till the levels get better. Then I need to figure out how to deal with my water. What would people recommend with water this soft as a permanent solution? I used to add koi clay regularly but haven't done this since moving - would that help? Or oyster shells in the filter? Or just add bicarb regularly?
    I suspect the ammonia and nitrite issues are because of the extreme water softness - does that sound right? So hopefully fixing this will get my filters working properly and get rid of that problem too?
    My temporary setup is a 600 gallon pond in the garage with aerated BD, easypod with 8k pump to a mini shower. the shower up until recently had 3 tiers of pumice, but last week I added 10kg of lotus root media (similar to BHM). I really don't think that has caused the issues though. Other than the lotus root the filters/media aren't new. I do 2 x 15% water changes per week, water is returned over 12 hours via a 3 stage cartridge and I also add ST as it doesn't catch all the chlorine.
    I have a dozen koi of 40-60cm and don't feed a lot due to the small pond, maybe 50-70g per day. the filters should be able to handle way way more than this, and have done in the past, so i can only assume that they are struggling with the super soft water?
    So questions I'd love advice on please:
    1. is 20% change per day fine in this situation?
    2. What should I do when the PH/ammonia is more reasonable? Clay? Bicarb? Oyster Shells?
    3. Can anyone think why my pond GH could be higher than my tap water? I'll do more tests to confirm.
    4. Any other advice?
    Thanks very much for the help. Note I know I've been stupid here and also the pond isn't big enough for a long term solution, but I didn't have many options when moving house.
    Thanks!
    Matt



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    I think a lot of people are saying that there is more chlorine being added to the mains water supply which could be knocking filters back and that could explain some problems people are having right now?

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  4. #3
    Matt, you're on the verge of a pH crash which, as you know, could cause a complete wipe out over night if it should suddenly plummet. The bugs in your biofilter will be inhibited by any pH lower than about 6.5 which would explain why your ammonia level has risen and will continue to rise until you get the pH above 7.0 .

    You need to do water changes to dilute out the ammonia and start raising the pH by adding 30 grams of sodium bicarbonate per 1,000 litres per day until you reach 7.0 then hold it at that for a few days until the biofilter bugs recover and start reducing the ammonia and nitrite towards near zero. After that, you can add 30 grams of sodium bicarbonate per 1,000 litres per day until you reach your preferred value. If you want a suggested pH value, I would personally settle for 7.5 .

  5. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Sorry I was getting confused with another thread that was water colour related.

    Good job you are on the ball Syd

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  7. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Good call Syd you are 100%, take heed Matt sod bicarb cheap and cheerfull to get your ph and kh up.

    I have 0 kh so use sod bicarb all the time,you get used to it.

    Welcome to the North !!!!!
    John

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  9. #6
    I didn't want to add bicarb untill the ammonia was lower... But you're right a pH crash, though I think unlikely is a bigger danger. I'll add some tonight.

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  11. #7
    Added 50g bicarb and PH straight up to 7. Bit of a bigger/ quicker jump than I wanted but at least it's up to reasonable levels. Will carry on with water changes and do all tests again tomorrow.
    So I guess I'm stuck with adding regular bicarb then... Oyster shells in the filter might be a good idea but seems like they are only really a protection for if the pH drops too low again. Is there anything I need to know about adding bicarb? I just mixed it in a glass of water then slowly added over 5 mins. That ok?

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  13. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsville View Post
    Added 50g bicarb and PH straight up to 7. Bit of a bigger/ quicker jump than I wanted but at least it's up to reasonable levels. Will carry on with water changes and do all tests again tomorrow.
    So I guess I'm stuck with adding regular bicarb then... Oyster shells in the filter might be a good idea but seems like they are only really a protection for if the pH drops too low again. Is there anything I need to know about adding bicarb? I just mixed it in a glass of water then slowly added over 5 mins. That ok?
    Nothing except chuck it in dry anywhere that's convenient. The skimmer or an open filter bay is ideal but straight into the pond will do.

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  15. #9
    Oh ok. I thought I'd mix it up so a koi doesn't take a mouthful or something.
    3 days of no food and water changes and the ammonia doesn't seem to be coming down. I'm concerned I may have completely killed my filters. Thinking I might chuck something in to help, like a pond bomb or pure pond. Anyone know if these help or which is best?
    Thanks for the help!
    Matt

  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Hope you get it sorted ASAP Matt.

    Good luck.

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  18. #11
    Matt, ammonia doesn't just come from food. The digestion and metabolism of food, especially protein, requires increased oxygen consumption and produces ammonia as a waste product which has to be excreted mainly through the gills. However, normal activity "burns" protein which also produces ammonia as the waste product too so, as long as you have live fish in a pond, there will be ammonia expelled with every respiration cycle.

    The safe way to recover from a pH crash is as I describe on my website on the link below and this also applies to where the pH has fallen below about 6.0 where the fish haven't yet begun to suffer from acidosis but where the biofilter bugs (nitrosomonas and nitrobacter) have become inhibited by the low pH.

    At pH 7.0 although the total ammonia (the value shown on test kits or photometers) may look high, the toxic free ammonia component (NH3) will be low as shown in my ammonia chart below. So, the reason for raising the pH to 7.0 and pausing before raising it to your preferred value is to remove the immediate danger to the fish and to give the bugs time to recover and again begin reducing the ammonia and nitrite to the optimum values of near zero.

    The bugs will recover on their own but, if you wish to speed up the re-maturation of the biofilter, a filter bacteria booster will help by providing new bugs which haven't been affected by the low pH.

    Recovering safely from a pH crash:
    Questions Answered

    If anyone wants a copy of my ammonia chart and parameter guide that can be laminated for future reference, there is one in the document library on my website.

    Follow the instructions at the bottom of this page to download and print:
    Ammonia chart


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  20. #12
    Thanks for the help Syd, really appreciate it. I understand that ammonia is still produced without food, but at a much lower level surely? Maybe 3 days without food isn't enough to see a dramatic reduction.
    I read the link to your website and didn't realise that such high levels of ammonia weren't lethal so I'll not panic too much, but still it would be good to get it down as quickly as possible. Any thoughts on which product to use to give the filters a hand, or do you reckon they're all similar? Can't hurt to put some in right?
    Thanks, Matt.

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  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattsville View Post
    Thanks for the help Syd, really appreciate it. I understand that ammonia is still produced without food, but at a much lower level surely? Maybe 3 days without food isn't enough to see a dramatic reduction.
    I read the link to your website and didn't realise that such high levels of ammonia weren't lethal so I'll not panic too much, but still it would be good to get it down as quickly as possible. Any thoughts on which product to use to give the filters a hand, or do you reckon they're all similar? Can't hurt to put some in right?
    Thanks, Matt.
    Hello mate. I used this after killing my filters. After PP the full pond and filters.
    https://queni-koi.co.uk/ea-pure-filt...4aAtIlEALw_wcB

    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  24. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai bicolormoth's Avatar
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    For anyone who finds the use and dosage rates of Sodium Bicarbonate inconvenient there are a few other options available to keep a buffer for your kH. My two favourites that i use currently are Lithuaqua Granules that i have suspended in my Bio Tank in a small Laundry Net/Bag, Lithuaqua is Calcified Seaweed, and looks a little like Cat litter., The other i use is Plaster of Paris. I mix some up and use discarded Take-Away containers (the clear plastic ones) to make a 'brick'. these are then also suspended in the bio tank in the same way and will last a week or two before dissolving. This is a great method for whenever you are away from home for any period of time ( i work away from hoime for months at a time) as the PP bricks will dissolve slowly. you could make them really big so they last longer or add more smaller ones, as they will dissolve at a rate determined by the demands of your water for it. A pH crash could be prevented just by using this PP brick 'trick' .
    5000g, Drum Filter/Gravity, + MBB, Skimmer-Sieve-Shower.

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  26. #15
    bicolormoth - that's really helpful, thanks. I was literally just about to post a reply on here saying is there any alternative to Oyster shells for something that will dissolve quickly adding kh only when PH drops below a certain level - it sounds like you're saying PoP and Lithaqua do this?
    My problem is I'm going on holiday in 2 and a half weeks (for 1 week) and whilst I hope my current situation has been resolved by then I'd like to put a safety net in place for if the PH drops too low. I thought the solution might be oyster shells, but reading up on what Syd has said in various other threads it seems that these are not going to do what I want as in the event of a potential PH crash they would not dissolve quickly enough to help much, and in other circumstances could potentially push the PH up too high, particularly if my ammonia issues aren't resolved.
    What I really want is something sitting in the filter doing nothing unless the PH drops below 7, at which point it would dissolve and buffer. Is that what PP or Lithaqua does? Or do they add kh (and increase PH) even when the PH is at normal levels?
    I'll add bicarb regularly when I'm here, but will be difficult to do it whilst I'm away.
    Syd or bicolormoth (sorry - don't know your name!) - do you have any opinion on whether this is a good idea for a potential safety net?
    Thanks,
    Matt

  27. #16
    Well, good news today - the ammonia is massively reduced. I didn't see much difference for a few days, then on Sunday it looked a bit lower, then yesterday was between 0.5 and 1mg/l and today is back to a safe level... not zero but certainly closer to zero than to 0.5mg/l. Incidentally when a reasonable ammonia level is below 0.2 mg/l, why on earth does the test kit only give it's first reference point at 0.5mg/l??? I guess as long as I'm closer to the pure yellow than the 0.5 green then things aren't dangerous. Might have to invest in some Hanna meters.
    Bad news is the Nitrite is on the rise, but that's to be expected. Has gone from about 0.25 up to over 0.5mg/l so I'll have to keep up with the water changes, but hopefully a sign that things are improving. Might even give them a small amount of food tomorrow - they made a mad rush to suck my hand a I went in to get a water sample today!
    I suppose the other good thing is I can now start raising the PH further...
    Having read a bit more on lithaqua and plaster of paris it seems that neither will react quickly enough to stop a PH crash. It might not be a bad idea to have something in the system though to keep adding a small amount of kh whilst I'm away and can't add bicarb.
    Syd - any thoughts on plaster of paris or lithaqua? Will both try to raise the PH to dangerous level if there's any CO2 in the water?
    Thanks for everyone's help!
    Matt

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