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  1. #1

    Need help with koi health diagnosis

    Hi all,

    I am new to the forum and wondering if anyone could help diagnose the skin discoloration on my Koi? I have tested the water and it isn't showing any abnormalities, everything is clear. We have 1 more healthy Koi but we lost a relatively new Koi a week ago, it seemed to take a decline after 3 weeks of being in its new environment. I spotted a white, milky film on the poorly koi a week before we got the new fish but it seemed to worsen withing days of introducing the new fish to the pond. The Koi started to lose its buoyancy and develop red sores underneath (tummy?) I have done a scrape and also added Malachite to the pond water, I have also given said fish a tonic salt bath but now he is developing a brown cotton wool on his back, he doesn't swim much, hes either lying on the bottom or gulping at the top, hasn't eaten for a week.

    pH-8
    NH3-0
    NO2-0
    NO3-0
    KH-5
    GH-5

    Pond is approx 20000 litres and all other fish seem happy.

    Thanks in advance
    Tim


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  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The Koi looks quite bad and its appearance looks like this is something that's been going on for a while without any action having been taken.

    To my eyes these problems could be secondary bacterial and fungal issues caused by something else, therefore whilst the Malachite might help with the fungal side of things it may not do anything to prevent whatever is causing it.

    Have you done scrapes and thoroughly checked for parasites?

    If not I think that is the first port of call before doing anything else.

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  4. #3
    Hi,

    Thank you for your response.

    We performed a scrape last week and looked through a microscope and couldnt see anything.

    But its symptoms do look very parasitic.

    Should I try again do you think?

  5. #4
    What's with all the bubbles? Are you feeding heavily?


    Is the N03 really 0?


    What filtration do you have?


    Did you quarantine the new fish before adding to the pond?


    My 1st thought is a bacterial problem but water quality and parasites can't be ruled out.




    Sorry for all the questions, but the more info provided the better.

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai bicolormoth's Avatar
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    looks bacterial, Saprolegnia, probably follwing parasite infestation.

    all your parameters are zero. have you ever had any Nitrie or Nitrate showing?, do you know if your bio filter is actually working ?
    5000g, Drum Filter/Gravity, + MBB, Skimmer-Sieve-Shower.

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  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Definitely yes to doing more scrapes.

    Scraped 4 of mine before finding the parasites that had been causing issues, then found parasites on the next 3 koi in a row even though they hadn't shown symptoms.

    You might have to scrape a few before finding the problem, but if they are all clean then that points to historic water issues which have now led to bacterial issues.

    Have to say I was also surprised at the zero nitrate reading considering the foam on the surface.



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  11. #7
    Hi guys thanks for the comments, I tested today and used the NT Labs test kit and they were clear.
    I have two pumps and one large Oase filter system and one of the smaller Oase filter.
    Didn't quarantine new fish
    Don't overfeed, the bubbles are from the water fall, the Koi in question was pretty much underneath it.

    Thanks, I will scrape again in the morning.

  12. #8
    My filter systems are an Oase filterclear 16000 and a Oase biosmart 24000.

    I have noticed a massive bloom in the oxygenating plants in there, can you have too much in there?

  13. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimDavies80 View Post
    My filter systems are an Oase filterclear 16000 and a Oase biosmart 24000.

    I have noticed a massive bloom in the oxygenating plants in there, can you have too much in there?
    Don't think you can have too many, but considerations are:

    They produce oxygen during the day but remove it at night - Do you have enough oxygen at night time?

    Plants would bloom when there's an excess of nutrients such as nitrates etc. Maybe your reading is zero because they're using it all up, but could be worth double checking with another test, not that I suspect in any way that nitrates are the cause of your issues.

    Next step really is to get the scrapes done and see what you find, if anything. But the symptoms on your fish are definitely secondary to something else so as your water readings are essentially ruling out water as the cause, parasites is next on the list.

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  15. #10
    Hi, I am so grateful for all the useful info. I will be performing more scrapes tomorrow. I didn't get chance yesterday. I have watched a few videos on methods of doing this. Do you have any helpful tips?
    Thanks again

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  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I'm the world's worst scraper so I'm not the best person to advise.

    It's always easier if someone is there to help.

    I have found the best and easiest scrapes to get are from underneath the koi from under the neck and back to the ventral region. Get the fish in a bowl and flip it upside down against the side of the bowl and it will stay still enough to scrape.

    Others put the fish in shallow water so the gills are covered then just scrape along the part of the body that is sticking out the water. The koi won't even know you've done it.

    Medium sized fish at around 40cm are easiest I find but it does depend on individual fish. Some are a total nightmare constantly wriggling and trying to jump, others just let you do what you want to them.

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  19. #12
    Yeah this guys pretty placid but does not like trying to be turned over.

    He is about 40cm however!

    Thanks for the tips bud. Wish me luck

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  21. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Be firm with it.

    Well, that's what everyone tells me but I still end up with palpitations and covered in water!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  23. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimDavies80 View Post
    I will be performing more scrapes tomorrow. I didn't get chance yesterday. I have watched a few videos on methods of doing this. Do you have any helpful tips?
    Hi Tim, for a few tips, you could take a look at my post and the ones before and after it, in which we were discussing various scrape and scoping techniques in this thread: https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-health-disease-medication-forum/25805-fmg-pp-resistant-costia-treatment-7.html#post337327. Within that thread, there are links to some videos on how to scrape, and if you go to YouTube and type in 'Koi Scrapes' and you'll get lots of results that'll give you more ideas.

    Hope this helps a bit
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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