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Thread: Help please

  1. #1

    Help please

    I need some advise/help. I've lost 4 koi over the past 6 weeks, my largest one and a couple of smaller ones. My largest one was approx 8 years old started to play dead (same as another one) then struggled to swim and keep himself upright but would still eat. I moved him into a tank that contained the pond water as i filled it directly from the filter outlet as not to cause a water shock. I added treatment for bacteria infection as I couldn't see no obvious signs externally, unfortunately he was dead within 24hrs.*
    I tested the water quality and everything was good (I cant remember the exact readings as I didnt write them down. Performed a partial water chamge anyway as it was due.*
    2 weeks later I lose another one thou this time was my fault as I left thr net off the pond and he jumped out catching the midges that are currently over the pond and laying the dam lavii everywhere.*
    I now have another one in quarantine displaying similar symptoms to my big koi previously, and this morning I found my platinum ogon doitsu dead on the surface.*
    Carried out water test this morning results are as follows*

    Amm under 0.2
    NO3 5ish
    NO2 0
    GH 10
    KH 6
    PH 7.6
    CL 0.4

    I do run a vyair dechlohrinater for water changes, filtration system is as follows
    Pump fed into uv then votex to sponges and k1, into waterfall split into 3 Chambers, 1st one containes alfagrog then plants (iris, and another plant thou dont know its name) and elodea then into zeolite into pond.*
    2nd pump into box filter containing k1 and bamboo type plant half of that is also filtered thru filter fleece.*

    Pond is approx 40000 litres contains approx 20 koi, shubikins, goldfish and 2 sturgeon (1 is 3ft) which makes pond treatments extremely difficult

    I currently have 2 koi now in quarantine



  2. #2
    I have also carried out skin scrapes on 6 koi, none of them show any signs parasites.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Is that chlorine at 0.4, if so that seems high to me?

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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Djstiles999 View Post
    Is that chlorine at 0.4, if so that seems high to me?
    Yes. Thats the lowest I have got it in over a year. Running dechlohrinater, and water conditioner. Never been able to get it below that.

    And thats filling 5000 litres of RO water as well

  6. #5
    Member Rank = Sansai twokoi's Avatar
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    Have you tried testing your dechlorinator? The link below deals with this.

    Questions Answered

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Sorry to hear of your problems. Its certainly good that you've provided all the water parameters.

    As already stated above Chlorine is clearly a problem here that needs to be sorted. To completely remove chlorine from the pond add Sodium Thiosulphate. It is very cheap, lasts for ages, and will nip that issue in the bud immediately. Plenty for sale on eBay in crystal form.

    Koi generally don't jump to catch midges. Usually Koi only jump if they are trying to get away from something, either the water or a parasite.

    My advice would be to fix the chlorine problem ASAP which is such a simple fix, then if you are still having problems you have to completely rule out parasites and the only way to do this is to keep scraping Koi (from different areas such as underneath, around the pectoral fin ball joint, and along the side from the gill covers back) until you can absolutely rule out parasites.

    Jumping is usually associated with skin or gill flukes, but not always so don't go adding any chemicals/treatments until you have a verified target.

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  10. #7
    I run inline dechlohrinater from evo aqua and the vyair 3 stage dechlohrinater.
    I done a 15% (ish) water change left it overnight amd tested water again, chlorine is down to 0.2.
    I have done scrapes on 6 of the koi across both sides and the underside, no parasites seen at 600 or 1200x
    Did check the gills for discolouration but they all seem OK, pinkish/red (like human gum colour).

    With them jumping, its not all of them just a couple and not constant but its only under the midges/gnats. (Chagois don't but they are bigger than the rest)

    I'm more than happy if someone is local to come check incase I missed something and advise. I'm fairly new to koi so all help is appreciated

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  12. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Good to see chlorine going down but it needs to get to zero. The dechlorinator will stop working and the cartridges replaced, I can’t remember how often but a quick Google will answer that but it’s only something like 10-15k litres before it needs renewing, you can get them on eBay for about £10 for 3 or add some ST crystals

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I think someone coming to visit would be a good move. What area are you in?

    I'm at a loss to the cause of the issues your having because if there's no parasites the symptoms would suggest either prolonged exposure to something in the water, such as chlorine, or, a bacterial issue, but with such high chlorine levels I wouldn't have thought bacteria would have had the chance to proliferate.

    I don't want to commit to suggesting chlorine is the cause because it's unlikely to have been prolonged exposure unless your constantly running fresh water in, and if it isn't chlorine then whatever it is needs finding and fixing quickly before you lose anymore.

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  16. #10
    The inline one is brand new, flushed it thru 1st with out 20 litres and the 3 stage one has had 20000 litres thru it so its still quite a way to go yet.
    I hate living in a hard water and chlorine area

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    All I’d say is as you are putting water through the dechlorinator but still getting chlorine something can’t be working. If you’ve just changed to add the inline and chlorine dropped I’d say your 3 stage needs new cartridges

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  20. #12
    3 stage does have new cartridges, well 20000 litres ago.
    I've been doing 10 - 15% water changes every other day. Can't really do more than that due to the amount of time it would take to fill. I am going to build a trickle in trickle out over the next few days so I'm hoping this will help. Chlorine coming out is now 0.0

  21. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouths84 View Post
    The inline one is brand new, flushed it thru 1st with out 20 litres and the 3 stage one has had 20000 litres thru it so its still quite a way to go yet.
    I hate living in a hard water and chlorine area
    Use ST mate and that way it won t happen again. I have 3 stage dechlorinator. But they cannot be trusted. So I st every 3 days.
    Never had the problem again. Works out cheaper then buying filters over the year as well.
    Fred

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  22. #14
    Forgive me for asking ST?

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouths84 View Post
    The inline one is brand new, flushed it thru 1st with out 20 litres and the 3 stage one has had 20000 litres thru it so its still quite a way to go yet.
    I hate living in a hard water and chlorine area
    If you check the water coming out of the 3 stage what’s the chlorine reading, if the cartridges are still good it’ll be near zero if not then you’ve used the carbon up

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    And a trickle in will make the problem worse as the chlorine is in your tap water not naturally occurring in the pond

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  28. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Djstiles999 View Post
    And a trickle in will make the problem worse as the chlorine is in your tap water not naturally occurring in the pond
    It would be running through both dechlohrinaters and measurement from them is zero

  29. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouths84 View Post
    Forgive me for asking ST?
    Sodium thiosulphate get it on ebay use it
    Water changer and trickle in and out.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1kg-Sodiu...-/140726666399
    Fred



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  30. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    That’s weird, if after the dechlorinator the reading is zero where’s the chlorine coming from? Use Freds link to get sone crystals and that’ll give you time to work it out?

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstiles999 View Post
    That’s weird, if after the dechlorinator the reading is zero where’s the chlorine coming from? Use Freds link to get sone crystals and that’ll give you time to work it out?
    It is weird.

    Also my 10" jumbo 3-pod was still showing zero chlorine after 35000 litres going through it. Don't know if due to the cartridges I chose (all detailed in my purifier thread in the water section).

    Some pond treatments can give a chlorine reading, obviously Chloramine T being the main one. I was getting massive chlorine readings even 3 days after the last dose with UV on and after adding enough ST to treat 5000 litres (12k litre pond). So that's a possibility if OP has used CT recently.

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