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  1. #61
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    I'm at a loss as to what to suggest next, apart from water changes and plenty of oxygen.....have the new fish been scraped again ?
    Its a pity there is nobody near to you that could come round in the flesh, so to speak and have a chat about your pond and the
    problems you are having at the moment. Nothing like a chat and a cuppa to put the world to rights .


    Ps.....I've wrapped fish in well sealed carrier bags before and they haven't smelt ( well not to much anyway )

    Thanks for the reply Anne. I've been trying to attach a pic of the fish that has been floating on the surface for days now. It's weird, a few times I've thought that he had died but when I approach with the net, he flips up the right way and swims a few laps of the pond, before drifting back to the surface on his side.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #62
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    That's awful g mac and horrible to see …...there's nothing poisonous leeching into the pond or plants that could be causing
    you're problems is there ? Everyone is having a right old time of it this year with parasites expect you have seen it all on here
    I don't know what else you can do, soooo frustrating ………………..

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  5. #63
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    That's awful g mac and horrible to see …...there's nothing poisonous leeching into the pond or plants that could be causing
    you're problems is there ? Everyone is having a right old time of it this year with parasites expect you have seen it all on here
    I don't know what else you can do, soooo frustrating ………………..
    No external source that I can see Anne. Just doing the last dose of Formalin and Malachite. ��

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  7. #64
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    No external source that I can see Anne. Just doing the last dose of Formalin and Malachite. ��
    Feel for you mate.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Feel for you mate.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Cheers Fred. Hopefully I'm going to have some fish survive.

    I've realised over the last few days though, how unbalanced and empty the pond looks, without the lovely bright red and white of the big Kohakus.

    If I get this all sorted, the pond will be in need of a couple of Kohaku or Sankes in there but I'm going to be terrrified and reluctant to ever introduce any new fish again. I'm not able to set up another quarantine unit these days, so can't see a way forward

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  11. #66
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    Cheers Fred. Hopefully I'm going to have some fish survive.

    I've realised over the last few days though, how unbalanced and empty the pond looks, without the lovely bright red and white of the big Kohakus.

    If I get this all sorted, the pond will be in need of a couple of Kohaku or Sankes in there but I'm going to be terrrified and reluctant to ever introduce any new fish again. I'm not able to set up another quarantine unit these days, so can't see a way forward
    Horrible situation you are in, but there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

    From memory I think (but could be wrong) you said you took 1 koi to the dealer who scraped and found white spot and flukes and so far you've been treating for the white spot but haven't started treating for the flukes yet.

    If you are still having fish losses and have bought a microscope it would be worth scraping again to see what is still on the fish. Also to scrape multiple fish if I was correct that only 1 got scraped at the beginning. You might have more than just what was found on that one fish, but the FMG you've administered will treat most of the worse critters which is good.

    If you've not got the microscope I'd say its worth getting one before replacing your lost Koi. Speed is the key to preventing deaths and if you see just one koi slightly under the weather you can scrape and get a definitely answer immediately instead of waiting to see if the problem continues or spreads to others.

    For new fish, you just have to use a Dealer with a thorough and proper quarantine procedure. The only 2 Dealers that 100% satisfy that in my area are Gatwick Koi and Koi and Water Gardens. You'll need to research the dealers in your area more closely. Generally you'll want a Dealer who heat ramps and has a quarantine process of 6 weeks or more. Koi and Water Gardens quarantine all fish for at least 3 Months, usually 4 Months by default as they buy in October/November and heat through Winter so you can't collect until April when your pond temps match theirs.

    Also, I think if you kept your stocking level down to around 10 Koi you'd have a bigger time window to sort out future issues if they were to crop up again. I think 17 Koi in 7000 litres was pushing it a bit because issues can evolve so fast at that stocking level.

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  13. #67
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    Cheers Fred. Hopefully I'm going to have some fish survive.

    I've realised over the last few days though, how unbalanced and empty the pond looks, without the lovely bright red and white of the big Kohakus.

    If I get this all sorted, the pond will be in need of a couple of Kohaku or Sankes in there but I'm going to be terrrified and reluctant to ever introduce any new fish again. I'm not able to set up another quarantine unit these days, so can't see a way forward
    As RS has said use dealers who heat ramp.
    And then build a trust up with them lol.
    Myself and RS are going through. A parasite problem right now.
    I am heat ramping 4 fish right now in my grow on qt. I have added my last dose of fmg this morning.
    If that hasn't got rid of the little buggers
    Costia. Plan b. To empty my pond and deep clean. And dip my fish one by one.
    This for me is now starting to be a nightmare. As it has been for yourself.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  15. #68
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Fred,

    Have you thought about heating the QT to 29C and hold it for 3 days to kill all the Costia as they don't survive long above 28C.

    If you go for plan B and empty the pond, the wet costia will die without a host. Then once fish are gone put a massive PP dose in the pond, that way it sorts the plants without you having to move them. Then just go around the edge of the pond and filters etc with a brush and brush the PP in to catch any dry ones that have turned to cysts. Also throw your nets, bowls and everything in the pond.

    I PP'd all my equipment last night, including even electric cables that hang into the pond when I'm doing stuff around the pond. Must have put about 5 grams into the measuring bowl and dropped everything in there. It was a strong mix because some spilt onto the grass and this morning the grass is dead lol.

    Be wary with the NT Labs stuff, it is quite a weak dose. I noticed the EA stuff is even weaker. Lee Burroughs said he never failed to wipe out anything with the Kusuri pre-mix stuff, or the individual bottles. The Queni Koi "Koi Doc" stuff is also the same as Kusuri, but cheaper.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 11-06-2020 at 01:19 PM.

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  17. #69
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    As RS has said use dealers who heat ramp.
    And then build a trust up with them lol.
    Myself and RS are going through. A parasite problem right now.
    I am heat ramping 4 fish right now in my grow on qt. I have added my last dose of fmg this morning.
    If that hasn't got rid of the little buggers
    Costia. Plan b. To empty my pond and deep clean. And dip my fish one by one.
    This for me is now starting to be a nightmare. As it has been for yourself.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Hope you get sorted.

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  19. #70
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Horrible situation you are in, but there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

    From memory I think (but could be wrong) you said you took 1 koi to the dealer who scraped and found white spot and flukes and so far you've been treating for the white spot but haven't started treating for the flukes yet.

    If you are still having fish losses and have bought a microscope it would be worth scraping again to see what is still on the fish. Also to scrape multiple fish if I was correct that only 1 got scraped at the beginning. You might have more than just what was found on that one fish, but the FMG you've administered will treat most of the worse critters which is good.

    If you've not got the microscope I'd say its worth getting one before replacing your lost Koi. Speed is the key to preventing deaths and if you see just one koi slightly under the weather you can scrape and get a definitely answer immediately instead of waiting to see if the problem continues or spreads to others.

    For new fish, you just have to use a Dealer with a thorough and proper quarantine procedure. The only 2 Dealers that 100% satisfy that in my area are Gatwick Koi and Koi and Water Gardens. You'll need to research the dealers in your area more closely. Generally you'll want a Dealer who heat ramps and has a quarantine process of 6 weeks or more. Koi and Water Gardens quarantine all fish for at least 3 Months, usually 4 Months by default as they buy in October/November and heat through Winter so you can't collect until April when your pond temps match theirs.

    Also, I think if you kept your stocking level down to around 10 Koi you'd have a bigger time window to sort out future issues if they were to crop up again. I think 17 Koi in 7000 litres was pushing it a bit because issues can evolve so fast at that stocking level.
    Appreciate you taking the time to respond and in such detail. Cheers.

    Just finished the last dose of Formalin and Malachite last night.

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  21. #71
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Fred,

    Have you thought about heating the QT to 29C and hold it for 3 days to kill all the Costia as they don't survive long above 28C.

    If you go for plan B and empty the pond, the wet costia will die without a host. Then once fish are gone put a massive PP dose in the pond, that way it sorts the plants without you having to move them. Then just go around the edge of the pond and filters etc with a brush and brush the PP in to catch any dry ones that have turned to cysts. Also throw your nets, bowls and everything in the pond.

    I PP'd all my equipment last night, including even electric cables that hang into the pond when I'm doing stuff around the pond. Must have put about 5 grams into the measuring bowl and dropped everything in there. It was a strong mix because some spilt onto the grass and this morning the grass is dead lol.

    Be wary with the NT Labs stuff, it is quite a weak dose. I noticed the EA stuff is even weaker. Lee Burroughs said he never failed to wipe out anything with the Kusuri pre-mix stuff, or the individual bottles. The Queni Koi "Koi Doc" stuff is also the same as Kusuri, but cheaper.
    I have my qt at 29c right now. The 4 fish in there. The 2 new ochibas I am heat ramping right now. Lol. And I have around 63 fish. No chance of putting them in 500
    Gallons lol. I then spend a week taking temps back down. Then back up. Another week.
    I like the idea of the hot tub and my qt. Still be a nightmare though.
    Easier to empty pond and bleach. I read some where as well that heat does not always work. But most articals says it does. Could still do all my plants in pp though.
    I was thinking of dumping the pond water.
    Because of ST.
    Refilling with pp in the pond circulating that for 24 hours. That will then do plants and
    And pipework plus pond.
    Dump that. Then refill. With fresh. PP dip the fish for 20 minutes. Then back in the pond.
    What do you think.
    Saying that. See if this treatment does anything for them first
    Fred

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  23. #72
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Wow Fred, had no idea you had 63 fish. I count mine every morning and evening to make sure all are there and well. 63 would be a nightmare.

    Hopefully the treatment will work and it will never come to plan B.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  25. #73
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Wow Fred, had no idea you had 63 fish. I count mine every morning and evening to make sure all are there and well. 63 would be a nightmare.

    Hopefully the treatment will work and it will never come to plan B.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    I ain't going to go in gung ho lol.
    I am going to sit on my hands for a week or so. And really watch and scrutinise the fish.
    Because I have a gut feeling there jumping
    Not because of parasites. They jump between 7 to 8 am. In a morning. Only.
    All day they don t flash or leap lol. Plus when there is heavy rain. So it's got me wondering.
    And also when I added the new drum and shower.
    That was the start of flicking there fins and the odd flash.
    Yet my water parameters are spot on.
    Lots to watch and work out.
    Fred

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  27. #74
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Wow Fred, had no idea you had 63 fish. I count mine every morning and evening to make sure all are there and well. 63 would be a nightmare.

    Hopefully the treatment will work and it will never come to plan B.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    I have always had around the 60 mark.
    In amount of fish lol .
    30 years. Never had a problem before.
    The odd parasite. Like anyone else.
    Never had a problem with water parameters. Always good.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  29. #75
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    I decided to put the an end to the poor old Sanke this morning. Very sad, been with us a long time but he wasn't going to survive.

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  31. #76
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    I decided to put the an end to the poor old Sanke this morning. Very sad, been with us a long time but he wasn't going to survive.
    Some times you have to mate. Sorry for your loss.
    Fred

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  33. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Some times you have to mate. Sorry for your loss.
    Fred

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    Cheers Fred, hated doing it but was hating seeing the poor old thing struggling.

    On the plus side, all the surviving fish are, at the moment, looking well. Pond is in dire need of a kohaku though.

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  35. #78
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that g mac but you made the right decision. Onwards and upwards .

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