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Thread: Help, koi death

  1. #1

    Help, koi death

    Hi,

    I am relatively new to koi keeping and I am experiencing deaths. 2 in the past week.

    My pond is relatively small 7500 litres

    Water quality is fine with zero nitrite, and ammonia
    I had a few fish on their sides a few weeks back when the temperature dropped, I subsequently added a heater and things improved (only maintaining 12c)

    Fish are flashing and I worry something is wrong but I cannot identify the cause.

    I have scrapped 4 fish and all clear

    I am baffled. Be great to get some advise on what the cause can be.

    As said water is fine, only add dechlorinated water pond is covered I have some fish clamped up others feeding and swimming happy and one hanging around the surface head down tail up.



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Simon Fish's Avatar
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    Hi, sad news.

    How long has the pond been there?
    What's the Ph and Kh readings?

    Any other details with the fish, red rash, red fins, spitting food, excessive slime coat, bacterial infections?

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  5. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai anne's Avatar
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    Anything leaching into the pond ? what have you used to cover it with...….

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  7. #4
    Hi Simon.

    Sad news indeed. Pretty devastated about it to be honest. I have tried to do all of the right things but things just donít seem to be going my way.

    Ph is stable at 7.5, I have not done oh in a while but was always 8 drops previously.

    Visually the fish look healthy, when you say food spitting I have not heard of it read this term before. If you mean are the fish taking food then spitting it back out then yes I have observed this a few times, I just thought the fish was being inquisitive. Is this a sign of an issue?

    The pond has been up and running since June, slowly introduced fish had no real issues along the journey.

  8. #5
    Hi Anne

    Itís covered with a polycarbonate sheet, I did suspect if the cause could be leaching the wood capping was treated with Cuprinol ducks back after I researched what was safe to use I see lots saying this was ok.

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  10. #6
    Update on KH and GH and nitrate

    KH is 9 drops
    GH is 11 drops

    Nitrate is not clear but not on the lowest reading of 10mg

    Tests completed with Colombo test lab aqua test

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  12. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Simon Fish's Avatar
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    The spitting and hanging head down could be gill flukes.
    But only more scraping can answer that.
    Try to get as close to the gills as practical.
    Last edited by Simon Fish; 02-12-2019 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Flukes not flakes! Typo

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  14. #8

    Help, koi death

    Hi Simon,

    I did do a decent scrap the previous times but did not focus on the gill area.

    Iíll net the little guy tomorrow and have a look at him.

    I donít suspect flukes but Iíll have a check.

    If thatís clear then I have no idea.. hopefully someone else maybe able to advise
    Last edited by Mikeh83; 03-12-2019 at 04:19 PM.

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  16. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Hi Simon,

    I did do a decent scrap the previous times but did not focus on the gill area.

    Iíll bet the little guy tomorrow and have a look at him.

    I donít suspect flukes but Iíll have a check.

    If thatís clear then I have no idea.. hopefully someone else maybe able to advise
    Have you tested for chlorine mike. Dpd4 tablets. To test.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  18. #10
    My bet would be on flukes Im a fan of sedating fish for thorough srapes in life or death situations.Just my opinion.If you give your location a fresh pair of eyes may help

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  20. #11
    Hi Freddy, I have not tested for this but I only fill using the evolution aqua carbon filter. That in under 6 months old so I would be surprised if there was any in there.

    Can you provide details how you use the dpd4 tablets for testing?

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  22. #12
    Hi big h, I am in Oxford.

    I have an update on water quality..

    I brought a new test set as I have read that they go bad. It has expired date of 2023 but I though better safe than sorry as I had been getting clear results for some time now and fish are not happy.

    With the new test results (api kit)
    Ammonia 0.50ppm
    Nitrite 0.25ppm
    Nitrate 20ppm
    Ph still 7.5

    I assume these numbers are not massively high but by no means clear.

    What is recommended for fluke treatment? Some say salt others chemicals.

    Do you guys think the water property could be the cause

  23. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Hi Freddy, I have not tested for this but I only fill using the evolution aqua carbon filter. That in under 6 months old so I would be surprised if there was any in there.

    Can you provide details how you use the dpd4 tablets for testing?
    hi mate here is a you tube limk. how to test for chlorine using DPD4 tablets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GvZG_jG73o
    hope this helps. you can buy of ebay.

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  25. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Spitting food is definitely caused by an irritant, whether it be chlorine, flukes, or something else.

    Mine were spitting food when they had flukes.

    But sometimes mine go through stages of spitting food and I don't know the cause. It will affect 2 or 3 koi at a time and last 3 or 4 days then they start eating normal again.

    Nonetheless, spitting is a classic symptom of gill irritation and flukes are the first port of call.

    Your readings, whilst far from perfect, should not cause any serious symptoms.

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  27. #15
    Thanks RS2000. Is it wise to treat for flukes if I have not see any?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  29. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Thanks RS2000. Is it wise to treat for flukes if I have not see any?


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    I have done this before having used Prazi based treatments many times over many years and never once seen any form of negative side effects. I'm confident it won't adversely stress the fish or affect the filter bacteria in any way whatsoever, but it will kill any flukes.

    But there are 2 problems.

    First one is that Prazi doesn't dissolve very well especially in cold temperatures and the lifecycle of Gill flukes can be months in cold temperatures so it can be expensive and take time to fully resolve the problem. Kusuri fluke P is a liquid form of readily dissolved Prazi so that might be more appropriate in cold weather.

    The 2nd and much bigger problem is that if you start treating for flukes and discover it's something else like Costia you have to wait for the fluke treatment to break down before retreating for Costia, and because Costia is a fast killer you could end up in a very messy situation.

    The best thing to do is keep scraping different parts of the worst affected fish, under the throat/pecs, around and behind the gills etc until you find something and can be sure you are treating the right problem.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  31. #17

    Help, koi death

    Hi @@Rs2000

    Thanks for the thorough update.

    Although winter has set in I am heated only to 54f but that should help with treatment.

    How about the Blagdon Fish Aid All In One treatment, it claims to kill all parasites and also treats fungus and bacteria infections.



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  32. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Personally it's not the sort of product I'd use and it probably won't touch flukes.

    Never seen the product but guessing like most all in one type products it's got a mild dose of malachite green and formalin which isn't strong enough to treat anything other then very mild fungal infections.

    I think more scrapes are the way forward so you can be sure of what you are treating and then it's less painful to fork out on the correct treatment, as targeted treatments such as fluke p and fluke solve can get expensive.

    If multiple scrapes aren't yielding any results it may not even be a parasite, but from the symptoms you describe Gill flukes, chlorine or a contaminant are most likely.

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  34. #19
    @Rs2000 thanks. I will take that advise.

    What sort of magnification are flukes visible at.


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  36. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    You can spot them easy at 100x and can usually pick them up at x40 of you have a good eye.

    Plenty of YouTube videos and videos on here showing flukes at various magnifications.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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