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Thread: Help, koi death

  1. #61
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Simon Fish's Avatar
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    Salt will lower the issue with nitrite,
    Not the level but the toxic effect.

    Zeolite can help reduce the ammonia.
    Salt is used to recharge zeolite and release the caught ammonia, but a level of less than 0.3% salt should be ok.

    High Ph makes ammonia more of a problem but low Ph makes the nitrite a problem, so no help there apart from the fact that the nitrite is the one that takes longer for the filters to get sorted.

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy Kenny View Post
    Mikeh83,

    Just a thought. I have anoxic filtration in my pond with and without plants in the baskets. Plants are not much use at this time of the year but the anoxic part will still be working away. Your filters at this time of the year are going to take an age to mature. Doing something like creating a few anoxic baskets and simply hanging them over the side of the pond in say a string bag may go some way in reducing your readings. They don't take a long time to mature.

    In my head (and not tested scientifically) you could achieve the same anoxic effect by simply half filling a string bag with cleaned (danish pink) cat litter available from Pets At Home and pushing a few balls of laterite (or other iron rich substrate) contained in the foot of a pair of tights into the middle of the mass of cat litter. Just make sure the cat litter does not fall out of the bag/basket and into the pond. It plays havoc with your bottom drain (learned from experience).

    Kenny
    Kenny would that work in hanging them in the nexus bio. Or in his case the easy pod.
    Or does it have to be away from filters.
    And hanging in the pond.
    Fred

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  4. #63

    Help, koi death

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Thanks for sharing RS.

    So there have been no more deaths.

    Ammonia and nitrite still present and fish are flashing.

    I am doing daily water change 5%

    Got some TS on order.




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    That much ammonia and nitrite is enough to kill fish. It stresses them making them susceptible to other issues. You should have 0 nitrites.! Use ammonia lock, big water changes and feed every other day. Good luck. Fish gills are probably getting burned.


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    Last edited by slapshot1; 09-12-2019 at 12:12 PM.

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  6. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Hmm interesting, I did not think you were supposed to shake it to ensure you are not adding dissolved oxygen... read it can give false readings.

    Well my DPD just arrived.. noticed that I donít have the rapid dissolve tablets, but the tintometer grade. From what I have read these are actually better as no cloudy white water..

    Will need crushing though I assume



    Iíll get a test completed when I get home


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    You are right about not shaking. Mostly....

    Syd does say not to shake the sample for that very reason with the DPD4 tablets.

    I was using Hanna Total Chlorine powder reagent which they say is "an adaption of" the DPD method. The instructions do say to shake the cuvette gently.

    Looking again at the video; i do use slightly more vigour (is that a word?) than a gentle shake don't i ?

    But (and i was hoping to spare you this) there is a part 1 and 2 of this video and you can clearly see the sample pinking as soon as the reagent is added. I'll see if i can find it later.

    I use a plastic rod to crush the DPD4 tablets in the tube.

    Here is a DPD4 test video that i made earlier. Syd did point out a couple of minor faults but i cant remember what he said now....

    https://youtu.be/yjx0oa4fHW0

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  8. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by slapshot1 View Post
    That much ammonia and nitrite is enough to kill fish. It stresses them making them susceptible to other issues. You should have 0 nitrites.! Use ammonia lock, big water changes and feed every other day. Good luck. Fish gills are probably getting burned.


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    Thanks for info, I am completing large water changes daily. I think the main issue here is my Colombo tests were showing clear so I was investigating all other causes. Once I got the api tests and identified the water parameters were far from perfect my attention is solely on correcting this. I have not heard of ammonia lock..? Assuming this is an additive.


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  9. #66
    I am continuing with the water changes and made up a batch of ST (delivered today) I am pleased to inform fish seem a lot happier now. There is still a trace of ammonia and nitrite but much lower now.




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  11. #67
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    I am continuing with the water changes and made up a batch of ST (delivered today) I am pleased to inform fish seem a lot happier now. There is still a trace of ammonia and nitrite but much lower now.




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    good on you mike. keep at it mate until zero.

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  13. #68
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Kenny would that work in hanging them in the nexus bio. Or in his case the easy pod.
    Or does it have to be away from filters.
    And hanging in the pond.
    Fred

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    Fred,

    The anoxic baskets are normally housed out of the main water flow in a gentler area of the pond. Mine are housed in a raised area in the pond where I sit my plants and also at the side of a 2000 litre sump. Normally housed in 12" baskets, the bag of cat litter idea is my own untested solution that may help. I would think there may be a little too much flow in a Nexus Bio chamber but then it depends on how big the bio chamber is, and where they are placed. If I remember correctly Milasz did a post on a set of baskets in a wheelie bin as part of his set up so may be worth looking that up. Part of the reason for keeping the baskets out of the flow I would think is that a mug full of iron rich substrate (normally Laterite but it is hard to come by) is normally simply poured ito the middle of the cat litter and may get washed away if there is a flow of water. Placing a few wrapped balls of Laterite in a big bag of cat litter would probably stop that happening.

    Kenny
    Last edited by Handy Kenny; 10-12-2019 at 03:51 AM.

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  15. #69
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Hi Kenny

    Thanks for info. I am new to koi keeping and have not even heard of of anoxic filters but this sounds interesting and I am looking for a quick boost of bio help.

    Is the any resources you can share for getting up to speed?


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    Mikeh83,

    Read about Anoxic here - click

    Anoxic works, and for good scientific reasons that Manky explains on his web site. Personally I swear by it even though I do lots of other filtration stuff as well, it is part of where I started when I first got my pond. It is a good passive addition to any filtration set up. Part of mine is in the pond itself where I have an area with plants (I am blaming my wife for that), this means that it closer to the source of the Ammonia, Nitrogen etc and gobbles it up more quickly. The other part is in a large sump that I have beneath my green house. I don't believe there is such a thing as too much filtration.

    Kenny

    P.S. I used JBL Aquabasis Plus (from Amazon) as the active ingredient instead of Laterite which is hard to come by. Laterite is basically an iron rich natural compound dug out of the ground. Aquabasis Plus may not be quite as good as Laterite but it is easy enough to get hold of. My solution was to create more baskets. I ended up with 20 baskets, I think I read of one baskets per biggish fish, I only had four big fish and around 20 tiddlers in the early months. They last a good few years.
    Last edited by Handy Kenny; 10-12-2019 at 04:06 AM.

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  17. #70
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy Kenny View Post
    Fred,

    The anoxic baskets are normally housed out of the main water flow in a gentler area of the pond. Mine are housed in a raised area in the pond where I sit my plants and also at the side of a 2000 litre sump. Normally housed in 12" baskets, the bag of cat litter idea is my own untested solution that may help. I would think there may be a little too much flow in a Nexus Bio chamber but then it depends on how big the bio chamber is, and where they are placed. If I remember correctly Milasz did a post on a set of baskets in a wheelie bin as part of his set up so may be worth looking that up. Part of the reason for keeping the baskets out of the flow I would think is that a mug full of iron rich substrate (normally Laterite but it is hard to come by) is normally simply poured ito the middle of the cat litter and may get washed away if there is a flow of water. Placing a few wrapped balls of Laterite in a big bag of cat litter would probably stop that happening.

    Kenny
    Cheers Kenny thanks for the info. It's not for me. My pond is very mature now. It's just more info to help other people with.
    As there has been a lot of people this year
    With new pond syndrome. And quite a few green ones. First time koi keepers. It's to help them get there pond parameters right.
    So they don t lose fish.
    Cheers again Kenny
    As always great info
    Fred

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  19. #71
    Thanks for all of the info kenny I will definitely look further into this. Nitrite is now at zero readings and ammonia nearly there also.

    I have not fed the fish for a week now..

    Is there a recommended food that i should look into. I have seen some comments that OSW is a good option, anyone know where I can get some.

    How long should I leave it until I feed?


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  20. #72
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Cookes Pet Supplies online
    Cheaper than shop can do it for.
    Im currently feeding Coppens Top Koi..... £105 in the shops I'm paying £72
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  22. #73
    Thanks Andy.

    I have ordered some Coppens Wheatgerm.

    Water now seems good and fish improving now they are actively looking for food. I did notice now they have raised from the deaths that there is a slight crowding of the skin on my larger gin run ogon benigoi not sure if this is due to the cold?

    Itís not white spots just a shadow across the whole body.

    Help, koi death


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  24. #74
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Not sure about the idea for anoxic media in bags.

    Does sound like a potentially good idea and it might work but both Manky and Dr. Novak have previously written that the system should not be modified from the explicit instructions they recommend.

    Which is to use square baskets.

    The baskets are so cheap, I just bought another 6 off eBay for £8.99 delivered, and where there's a will there will be a way of hanging them in the pond.

    I think the depth they suspended in is also a factor for to the various positive and negative charges involved, around 2 feet deep is ideal.

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