Koi help

[RS2OOO]

Having seen the video I'm not convinced about the swim bladder issues as a primary cause, I think something else is at play but difficult to guess what that might be.

Some of the koi movements in general look erratic in that the something is irritating the koi, and they seem to be propelling themselves by their tails in sudden movements rather than gentle movements led by the pecs (a definite sign of them not being well).

I also noticed a couple seemed to look like they had heads down and tail up which is another indication of things not being well.

When was the last time you added chemicals/treatments?

How mature is the pond?

Admittedly I've seen my koi like this after heavy chemical use and being quite sure there are no parasites, took the decision to just sit on my hands and maintain perfect water which has been enough to let them rebuild strength and recover, albeit I've never had these issues when temps have been this cold.

Have you seen Costia under the microscope before and know how to identify it?

The temp swings you've seen (between 2 and 7 most recently) aren't ideal either, it would be a good move to cover the pond with polycarb to add temperature stability, though I also appreciate that would limit your ability to monitor what is going on.

Unfortunately even if you find parasites it can be pointless trying to treat at these temperatures which makes it extra frustrating.







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[6044jason]

I have actually just added a couple of 600w heaters and a thermostat to come on at 4.5c to try and ensure it doesn't dip too much below that moving forward.

I haven't added any treatment or chemical since around September, and since then water quality has remained solid, I think at one point I was treating so heavily for parasites, that in itself killed some koi, I lost a lot this year.

The pond was built in June this year, I first transfered the old filter over but it wasn't coping too well and I swapped it for an Eazypod which has been running since about August.

I have researched videos on scoping for costia and think I've found them in the summer, I will scrape again later and have another thorough look but as you say, there's not much we can do anyway I guess until water warms right?

[6044jason]

Just checked again, definitely nothing bigger like flukes or ich etc, the only thing are these ting little things darting around but I just can't get the focus right on them

https://youtu.be/RnW3E1-7dAs?si=94kS-Ygnd4uFTyny

[RS2OOO]

I couldn't be 100% sure as they are very active considering the temperature, and some of them appear to be moving with purpose whereas Costia tend to be more random.

There is definitely some unidentifiable things moving about, but the one or 2 that move from left centre to right centre between 30 and 32 seconds are almost definitely Costia.

I'd say I'm about 80% sure you have Costia on that slide even though I'm surprised at how active they are.

Treatment wise there isn't a lot you can use at low temps, I think my personal choice under the circumstances would be Kusuri Acriflavine and Malachite pre-mix but you'd need to check the label as to the minimum temperature.

In view of the various failed treatments you've already administered and the poor health of your koi combined with the challenge of administering treatment at cold temps, I personally would see if you can raise and hold temps at 12C and administer the treatment with 0.6% salt. Controversial to salt the entire pond but in my experience it absolutely helps alongside the aforementioned treatment.

I've treated Costia twice with this method over the last 3 years, albeit at milder temps.

Happy for others to chime in with their thoughts.

Good job you made the effort to scrape them, not enjoyable in cold weather!


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[RS2OOO]

You said scrapes were clear, I would suspect costia. Might be worth a second look.

.

Good shout it seems from the video.

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[6044jason]

Thank you, I actually ordered an inline heater today so I will attempt to raise the temp to 12c and treat.

I have checked kusuri website and this product doesn't mention anything about temperature whereas the others do so not sure what the minimum is.

I've definitely got kusuri fmg at home, will see If I have any of the other before ordering.

[RS2OOO]

Thank you, I actually ordered an inline heater today so I will attempt to raise the temp to 12c and treat.

I have checked kusuri website and this product doesn't mention anything about temperature whereas the others do so not sure what the minimum is.

I've definitely got kusuri fmg at home, will see If I have any of the other before ordering.

I wouldn't use the FMG at current temps, especially if you've already used FMG this year as it obviously hasn't worked.

I'd definitely go for the Acriflavine and Malachite pre mix in consideration of temperatures, your hard water and the lack of additional aeration going by your pond video clip alongside the possibility the koi are having difficulties breathing (Formalin depletes oxygen). Also you can't use FMG with salt, but you can with Acriflavine and Malachite.



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[6044jason]

Noted thank you, will go for that, I have a large air pump which I can turn on and will during treatment, just had it off for winter.

[Alburglar]

I had to use FMG at really low temps last year. Nothing adverse happend.

[6044jason]

Ok, I salted the pond to 0.6% over a couple of days, and I've managed to hold the temp at 12.8 for a few days now. I have just added the acriflavin and malachite mix, two questions.

How long is the treatment active, 7 days? Is one enough?

[RS2OOO]

I would just follow the instructions on the bottle.

Last time I used it I re-dosed after about 5 days, but I'd like to think I have a good eye for how the koi are coping, plus having hard water reduces the toxicity, plus I haven't treated in such low temperatures before, so again, following what the bottle says is probably the safest bet to get your koi through winter and you can revisit if problems resurface next year.

Personally I'd have got all the salt in immediately in one go, there is an alleged risk of causing osmotic shock to the koi which is well publicised so I can appreciate your gradual method especially considering the poor health of some of your koi, though I've never experienced any problems, and it also prevents parasites being able to acclimatise to the increased salinity so many of them will succumb/implode immediately.

Ultimately see the treatment through its full course and re-scrape as you feel necessary.



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[Alburglar]

Yes. The point of salt is that the parasites struggle to survive a 0.6 jump, whereas the koi are much larger complex creatures that can handle that change in salt level. If you add it gradually you are negating what you are trying to achieve.

You only get one shot with salt. So it is, what it is now. It will still be of benefit. Koi are a learning curve I'm afraid.

You definitely have Costia as others have suggested. So just keep up the treatments as you have been. Even if you can knock them back and worry about it in the spring, would be good.