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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Unusual Skin Condition / Lesions - Doitsu Ochiba

    In 2019 my then 2 year old Doitsu Ochiba displayed what can only be described as swollen lateral lines. After a while they went back to normal and the fish was fine.

    The same thing happened in summer 2020, as per these photos:









    Over the following years it would flare up again from time to time, sometimes worse than others. She is a bit of a parasite magnet so on each occurrence I'd scrape her and sometimes found stuff, other times nothing. On one occasion she had a quite heavy fluke infestation so I put it down to possibly being that.



    In August into September 2023 I had white spot immediately followed by a major fluke outbreak following the purchase of a new Koi. All Koi were flashing like crazy and the Ochiba was no exception, with her flanks being a little pink. After multiple pond treatments to eradicate the critters all the Koi healed up well, but the Ochiba still looked a bit dodgy with mucus strings, swollen lateral line and what looked like raised streaks of skin. This photo was taken in October 2023:




    I took 2 massive scrapes from her that entirely covered 2x 2cm2 slides and spent over an hour going through them, and all I found was 2 suspected Costia. I ordered treatment but it got lost in the post and by the time it eventually arrived it was December and pond temp was sub 10C. By this time the Ochiba was looking fine again and not displaying any behavioural problems so I decided to leave treatment until Spring.


    Last edited by RS2OOO; 04-07-2024 at 03:43 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The Ochiba held up fine throughout Winter and into Spring, but then in May I added an ASHP to the pond and instantly went about raising water temps, up to 19C.

    Within days there was flashing in the pond and the Ochiba skin was deteriorating rapidly. I scraped and found Costia (as expected) and treated accordingly. This was a 12 day course of treatment consisting of 5 doses. About a Week after the final dose the Ochiba's skin was looking even worse with exposed flesh, peeling skin and strings of mucus hanging from the body, though tha actual skin attached to her body had very little mucus:








    I scraped her again taking 2 huge scrapes and spent over an hour going through them. In that time I found a handful of fast swimming rod shaped creatures, never seen them before so no clue what they are, but don't suppose they were anything to worry about. Here's a poor quality video taken in the heat of the moment:



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR2B8IGLdms


    I also found 1 single suspected Costia that darted in and out of focus really quickly. I'd be around 80% certain it was a Costia, but I couldn't find any more and have not found any on subsequent scrapes.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 05-07-2024 at 11:30 AM.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    From early June she started isolating from the group and stopped eating. She lost weight and looked worse as time went by.

    However, if I dropped cooked mussels in front of her she would eat them, so for about 2 weeks this is how I fed her, up until a couple of other Koi cottoned on and started stealing them. With this extra competition for her Mussells she started competing again which was positive, and a few days later realised she would be guaranteed food by hand feeding - So there I was putting pellets in one end of the pond and then the Ochiba would be at the surface at the opposite end waiting for her Mussells.

    Every 5-6 days I was bowling her and covering her entire body (behind the gills) in Tamodine. This had to be done without sedate as the pond water is still salted from the Costia treatment.

    After a couple of weeks of this she put a little weight back on and started mixing more.


    But her skin still looked really bad, as follows:









    These latest photos are about 12 days old now. Her skin has improved slightly but she still has a long way to go and I'm not confident of a full recovery.

    Despite the issues with parasites I'm not convinced parasites are the direct cause, I have not seen her flash at all, and if that single Costia really was a Costia I'd like to think the Tamodine would have killed it off. Each time she got the Tamodine treatment I scraped her, and the last 2 scrapes have been 100% clean, and whilst there has been the odd creature, there hasn't been anything that could be identified as a parasite.

    She is now fully active as are all the other Koi, and she's coming up for food with the gang again and back mixing with them all (at first she'd dart away if any got too close to her, but now she's holding her own and bashing her way through for food etc).


    Anyone have any ideas as to an underlying cause?
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 04-07-2024 at 03:40 PM.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai KiOgon's Avatar
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    Sorry no idea of the cause but massive credit to you for doing everything you can to look after her, I hope she pulls through, best of luck.
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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion g mac's Avatar
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    You've certainly made a valiant effort there, hope it is a good outcome. Sorry can't offer any advice though.
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  10. #6
    Hi.Only thing,I can think of would help is salt.

  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog1 View Post
    Hi.Only thing,I can think of would help is salt.
    Already Salted at 0.6% in mid May.

    Have now stopped maintaining that level as it doesn't appear to be making a worthwhile difference (though has probably helped stave off bacterial infection when flesh was exposed), and currently down to about 0.45%

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  13. #8
    I wonder,if a certain form of antibiotics would clear it up?

    Sent from my moto g32 using Tapatalk

  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    My humble opinion is, I think the lateral line issue is a weird pox. They all react different to it, from waxy lumps to all sorts of weird and wonderful and the latter seems to be an ochiba thing. My poxy ochiba gets similar where the poxy bits get knocked or scraped when there's parasites in the pond and then secondary infection would obviously be an issue.

    I think just keep it clean (I would do exactly what you're doing already) and it will come and go (potentially for years) and then you never know one day it will go, hopefully.
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    Last edited by Alburglar; 06-07-2024 at 06:10 PM.
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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Still no improvement to skin condition, some places are healing, others getting worse.

    Pulled her out for the Tamodine treatment last night and did 2 slides worth of scrapes. One slide clean, the other had 2 individual Costia across the entire slide.

    I will carry out another Costia Treatment just to eliminate that as a potential cause. Still no issues across the other 13 Koi in the pond, and all are eating well.

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  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I have noticed that 2-3 days after coating the Ochiba with Tamodine, the skin appears to improve.

    Then about 10 days later it starts to deteriorate again.

    This could be coincidence or it could be an indication that it is being caused by an external source such as a parasite. In view of the 2 costia found on the last scrape, as soon as I see signs of deterioration again I'm going to carry out a Costia treatment.

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  19. #12
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I would imagine that raised lateral line is most likely inflammation from constant trauma when flashing?
    I have one doitsu chag who damages its lateral line if it ever flashes, although does not look as weird as yours!

    Your poor fish does look in a bit of a mess, well done for persevering.
    Theres likely secondary infection in the skin now, so really antibiotics would be ideal.
    I would put my money on costia being the underlying issue here. Have you tried a 5 day ICC course yet?

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