Alparex

[Jgw911]

A very bad experience of Alparex here. Used a range of treatments over the years but never seen anything like this. Unfortunately took a recommendation about it and added the first dose before doing any web research to check other peoples experiences.
KH of 10, pH of 8.5. All other parameters normal. Temp 16C.
added the first dose over an hour. Within 30 minutes my largest most docile tancho was trying furiously to jump out. She has never done that. Then a reasonably large hi utsuri started swimming around at breakneck speed. 24 hours later I dared not add the second dose.
now 48 hours later. Hi utsuri still a mix of floating face down aimlessly then hurtling off at random around the pond. Tancho has started convulsing.
Enough. Tancho and hi utsuri now in a separate tank of tap water and seem to be calming. 60 to 70 percent water change underway.
Going to be a late night

[g mac]

Hope you get it sorted.. wonder what went wrong, have you recently treated with something else?

[scaly bob]

Heard this a few times. Keep up with the water changes. Have you used a fluke treatment recently? Good luck..

[Jgw911]

Thanks for the reply. Treated with one dose of FMG about a month ago and Lernex Pro back in March. Did a few of water changes since then. Nothing more recently.

[g mac]

Perhaps it’s due to your water being soft. Have you checked hardness and kh etc?

[Jgw911]

Perhaps it’s due to your water being soft. Have you checked hardness and kh etc?

As stated in my original message, KH of 10. Water is hard in Bristol.

[Jgw911]

Up until 1am this morning refilling the pond.
7am this morning, water still pea green and horrible but fish looking much better. Fingers crossed I caught this in time, but will need to see how things pan out over the next few days.
Have to watch out for ammonia spikes now as filters have probably been hammered, much like the fish.
Hopefully at least the chilodonella has been sorted. If not I won’t be adding any more treatments for some time so the fish will have to deal with it themselves.

[g mac]

As stated in my original message, KH of 10. Water is hard in Bristol.

Sorry, I didn't revisit your post.

[Jgw911]

Sorry, I didn't revisit your post.

No worries mate. I wrote quite a long message there

[RS2OOO]

I've used Alparex with no issues and brilliant results a couple of times, then the last time I used it the outcome was similar to OP's, no convulsing though so not quite as bad.

I really don't get it.

Spoken to a few Dealers about these issues and they all say they've used it 100's of times and never had an issue. When you discuss individual cases they'll say the person must have dosed wrong, got their pond volume wrong, had a previous treatment still lingering in the pond, or was mistaken about their KH levels etc.

I'd love to know the answer - I'd be very nervous about using it again, but its such a good treatment and has worked so well in the past I just don't know what to make of it.

Sounds like you took all the right actions OP, and very good you acted quickly enough not to lose any of your collection.

[Jgw911]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes it is strange. I’m sure lots of people use it successfully with no issues. I feel there must be another factor here that isn’t understood, beyond the causes of problems I’ve seen in an email from Colombo (can’t remember what discussion thread that was on this or another forum). My pond is rectangular - designed that way so that I could accurately assess the volume. Tested the KH and pH throughout. Even if my test kit is consistently wrong (made by Colombo as well), I know damn well the tap water here is hard - we spend enough time scraping scale off the taps and cleaning out the kettle etc. There definitely wasn’t any pH crash - tested multiple times.
The treatment did seem to affect the largest fish while the smaller ones seemed ok - could that be why dealers don’t seem to have problems treating incoming shipments from Japan? But largest fish being affected would imply an oxygen depletion problem, yet the reactions of the fish didn’t suggest that - no gasping at the water surface or anything like that.

It is a mystery, but like you I won’t be testing my luck with Alparex ever again.

My fish seemed to have recovered pretty well though so far. Really thought the tancho was a gonner. Kept pond fish, freshwater and marine aquaria for over 20 years and I’ve never seen a fish shaking uncontrollably like that. Never want to again.

[Jgw911]

Plus I’ve done big water changes after each of the previous treatments (on top of the fact that they are quite a while ago) so there really couldn’t have been more than the merest trace of the Lernex Pro and the FMG if anything at all.

[g mac]

It really is a strange one

I've kept a bottle of Alparex in the cupboard, just in case but would definitely be a bit reluctant to use it now. Shame because it is a very useful product and I've used in the past with great results.

[NamoAmituofo]

I’ve done PP at crazy strength - and PP dips at even crazier strength - and Supaverm at multiple doses - but I dare not touch Alparex for this kind of horror stories.

Especially when no one can put a finger on what caused this type of ‘outlier’ incidents. Don’t want my fish to be the 1% outlier that get killed even when manufacture boasts 99% safety!

[RS2OOO]

Thanks for the reply.

But largest fish being affected would imply an oxygen depletion problem, yet the reactions of the fish didn’t suggest that - no gasping at the water surface or anything like that.

It is a mystery, but like you I won’t be testing my luck with Alparex ever again.

Mine were not gasping during treatment or within the following 24 hours, but after that I had 2 Koi gasping at the surface every morning for the following 3 Months.

A Shiro Utsuri (maybe 55cm at the time) and a Hi Utsuri (44cm at the time), probably coincidence that they were both Utsuris. After around 3 Months they settled down and have been fine for the last 2 or 3 years since with them now 60cm+ and 50cm+ respectively and generally healthy.

I had loads of oxygen going in at time of treatment and relatively low stocking levels too.

Also, because the treatment is split over 2 days I only got the 1st day's worth in the pond which was mid - late afternoon, then I was changing water from about 9pm. Despite this very short window with only half the total treatment administered, the Costia and Chilodonella were gone.

[Jgw911]

Thanks, useful to hear your experience.

Glad that it sorted your parasites at least. My first dose was in for a full 48 hours so hoping it has sorted out my chilodonella. Have a few fish still flashing but that might be because of so many big water changes (did another yesterday to finally get rid of the last green tinge).

[Jgw911]

Well, so far this year after using Lernex Pro, FMG, and the latest treatment so strong I thought I was going to end up with casualties, my fish are flashing like crazy today. The platinum ogon is red raw along his side.

I guess we all have days when we feel like jacking in this hobby right?

Can’t face doing any more scrapes at the moment or throwing any more damn chemicals into the pond.

I’ll just pretend I don’t have any koi for the time being and think about it again tomorrow.

[g mac]

Well, so far this year after using Lernex Pro, FMG, and the latest treatment so strong I thought I was going to end up with casualties, my fish are flashing like crazy today. The platinum ogon is red raw along his side.

I guess we all have days when we feel like jacking in this


Can’t face doing any more scrapes at the moment or throwing any more damn chemicals into the pond.

I’ll just pretend I don’t have any koi for the time being and think about it again tomorrow.

you’re not alone, I think a few of us can relate to what your feeling.

[RS2OOO]

Well, so far this year after using Lernex Pro, FMG, and the latest treatment so strong I thought I was going to end up with casualties, my fish are flashing like crazy today. The platinum ogon is red raw along his side.

I guess we all have days when we feel like jacking in this hobby right?

Can’t face doing any more scrapes at the moment or throwing any more damn chemicals into the pond.

I’ll just pretend I don’t have any koi for the time being and think about it again tomorrow.

Just make sure that it is definitely not White Spot you are dealing with.

[Jgw911]

Just make sure that it is definitely not White Spot you are dealing with.

Possible I suppose but aren’t white spot somewhat darker under the microscope and much larger than chilodonella? What I could see (when I last looked a week or so ago) was only visible at 400x and looked more like the videos of chilodonella I’ve seen online.

Plus Alparex is meant to kill both I think…?

Dont know what is happening. All the fish are very active and obsessed with food - no one sulking on the bottom or hanging around the water inlets anymore, yet a few still flashing. Got the drain cover aeration on to discourage them from rubbing against it.

Pouring with rain today so probably won’t scrape until it dries up a bit.