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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    GH and koi immunity

    I took a fish into a local koi dealer to have a koi injected as I felt that it had a bacterial issue.
    I felt that he did a good job of topical treatment and injecting it.
    He did a scrape and did water tests to which I thought was good practice.
    I had recently scraped the same fish a week or so ago and found nothing but was not surprised that he found skin flukes as I turned the heat from 10 to 16 degrees over a period of 10 days in preparation for the injection, so the extra heat will have triggered fluke activity along with the fact that against my best efforts I did not completely gat on top of them last year.
    In his opinion he felt that koi immunity was suppressed by me using a 35% weekly water change at present due to my drum. He felt that this causes too much change in the water chemistry
    He also said that my low GH was too low at 3 German degrees which also is causing low immunity.
    He thought that GH and water change was causing low immunity and that was the reason why I am really struggling to get on top of flukes.
    I do not mess with my GH as Tap water is 3deg and buffering will only make another thing to monitor and keep consistent. I was also under the impression that GH is about colours and that koi will get extra the minerals needed from decent food.
    I have a blue lab PH probe which is spot on, my PH is 7.4 and I buffer back up when it goes down to 7.2, so very little variation there.
    I top up my water via a big blue with a solinoid valve and digital timer which is set for 20 mins ten times a day which tops up just 40 lites each time it comes on.
    Pond is covered with polycarbonate so very little variation in temperature
    I feel that the way I replace water is measured and consistent with very little change but he could not agree and even suggested getting a bigger drum with wider screens that would use less water.
    Could I please have some feedback as to my maintenance program and the advice that I was given
    Some dealers up north seem to insist on raising GH as water is very soft up here
    Many Thanks
    Ian



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Martin59's Avatar
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    hi Ian
    this sounds like a question for Manky Sanke to answer. I personally can’t see anything wrong with what you’re doing. out of a matter of interest does your koi dealer also sell drum filters as to suggest you replace your drum filter seems ridiculous.
    also what size pond you have what size pond do you have.

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  4. #3
    I visited a koi dealer last week, And he asked me what fish I had in my pond. I told him, I have Common carp ,Mirror carp, Goldfish, Shubunkins, Coments,Koi and Tamasaba. I've owned the Common carp for over thirty years and love them all like show fish. He told me to get rid of them and buy all Fish of him! What a DICK!!!!!!!!!

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    I have a 1600 gal pond running a oase compact M gravity fed.
    Yes the dealer sells Burtons drums.
    In my opinion water charges done in a measured way can reduce pollution by dilution (especially nitrate). Reduce TDS and increase ORP . increasing KH and GH unnecessarily will increase TDS and reduce the waters ability to hold oxygen as efficiently
    I wasn’t sucked in by the advice given but just wanted to put it out there. I asked the person giving the advice if he had an outdoor pond which he doesn’t. I don’t question his ability to manage newly imported koi in a closed environment but I would question his knowledge and advice on an outdoor environment

  7. #5
    Excuse my delayed reply Ian, I've been busy replumbing my swimming pool to get it ready for the boss.

    Carp, (including koi) need a trace of GH in their environment which they uptake through the chloride cells in their gills in order to remove ammonia from their bodies, regulate blood chemistry, bone formation and maintenance plus a whole bunch of other minerals for growth and other metabolic functions. However the concentration of these minerals in the water can be very low because the chloride cells only scavenge trace amounts and the actual concentration makes no difference to how much they uptake so the acceptable GH range is from well below 1°GH to greater than 20°GH.

    The uptake of minerals through the chloride cells doesn’t directly contribute to the immune system because the required minerals would be in any reasonable quality koi food anyway.

    You’re correct in saying that the GH makes a difference to colour development. In brief, a low GH favours the development of beni (red) and a higher GH favours the development of sumi (black). However, the effects wouldn’t be noticeable on low quality koi and only be apparent on show quality koi with the genetics that allow high quality colouration. There is a more detailed explanation in the article I wrote for my website on the link below.

    An abrupt 35% water change might disrupt the water chemistry of a badly maintained pond that only gets the occasional water change. However, a high rate of change done by either the trickle through method or the near equivalent of ten very small water changes every day can’t make any sudden changes in water chemistry.

    Hope that helps, if not please ask and I’ll go into greater detail.

    Article on how soft or hard water affects koi colours:
    https://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/chromatophores.html

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  9. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    Thanks Syd, that puts my mind at rest, I was sure that I had a good maintenance program that wasn’t impacting on water chemistry or my koi‘s immune system, sometimes we are told a load of tripe but just wanted to make sure. The only reason that I do the 10 water changes is my big blue starts tracking if I don’t put 2 liters per min through it and that would be about 100 % per week if I left it on constant. Many Thanks enjoy your swimming pool.

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  11. #7
    Thanks Ian but, having run a swimming pool company for 30+ years, I've grown to be bored with swimming and haven't bothered for years because, whenever I have been swimming, I think "I'll be glad when I've had enough then I can get out and do something useful".

    On the other hand my wife loves swimming and would be swimming now if it wasn't so windy. She doesn't mind swimming in cold weather as long as the water temperature is over 30°C which was the reason for completely replumbing it to put in a larger heat pump to allow her to swim earlier in the season until maybe October or even November.

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