Koi constipation?

[james9489]

Got excited with the warmer temps and fed medikoi wheatgerm a few times a day, past week or so pond at 10c. All looked great and very active but one has dropped and sitting on the deck gets up and has a look when I turn up but seems to be swimming like he’s stuffed?! No raised scales. Constipation? Iv read green peas but wonder if too cold and another cold snap next week. Anyone had anything similar?


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[davethefish1]

There is a new JPD food specifically for constipation and also sinking disease.
but it's not available in the UK or the EU.
currently only seen it for sale in malaysia iirc...
i believe it has a very high bran fibre content.

you can try peas, but stop all feeding to start with, and it may resolve it's self.
at 5c-10c i'd only be feeding a couple of times a week as per Hikari feeding guide.
most in Japan don't feed at all from end of december to end of may,
and once feeding has stopped for winter, they don't start again if they get a warm spell.
I believe they call it the 'hunger time' or similar.

[james9489]

Thanks Dave, I’ll keep an eye out for the new food sounds like a good idea. They were up like a summers day last week and picking away at everything, read the back of the medikoi packet and it stated up to 2 feeds a day if active and looking for food. They were racing around like mad. Just whacked the heat on to help through the next week with the 0 temps.

Definitely think it’s digestion issues, he seems a bit better today. Was dreading dropsy. I’ll be holding off now and follow the saki guide.

Going to try balance this year then when I get to 18c a bit of growth. Not sure on colour have read best holding of until next year.

Cheers mate


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[davethefish1]

Thanks Dave, I’ll keep an eye out for the new food sounds like a good idea. They were up like a summers day last week and picking away at everything, read the back of the medikoi packet and it stated up to 2 feeds a day if active and looking for food. They were racing around like mad. Just whacked the heat on to help through the next week with the 0 temps.

Definitely think it’s digestion issues, he seems a bit better today. Was dreading dropsy. I’ll be holding off now and follow the saki guide.

Going to try balance this year then when I get to 18c a bit of growth. Not sure on colour have read best holding of until next year.

Cheers mate


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i've gathered a bit of info on the new JPD food so i'll put a post up thats easy for people to find in a search.

if you look at the hikari chart, balance can be fed down to12C in very small amounts.
but my own observations with growth food is that below 20C it isn't utilised very well so they crap half of it out undigested.

saki colour food has the same nutritional profile as balance though, and i feed it year round, as i'm not showing fish and want them to have good colour.
and i'm currently feeding colour, balance, and wheatgerm,
but only in very small amounts as wheatgerm can easily cause fish to get fat, and i am at around 17C - 18C.

[james9489]

i've gathered a bit of info on the new JPD food so i'll put a post up thats easy for people to find in a search.

if you look at the hikari chart, balance can be fed down to12C in very small amounts.
but my own observations with growth food is that below 20C it isn't utilised very well so they crap half of it out undigested.

saki colour food has the same nutritional profile as balance though, and i feed it year round, as i'm not showing fish and want them to have good colour.
and i'm currently feeding colour, balance, and wheatgerm,
but only in very small amounts as wheatgerm can easily cause fish to get fat, and i am at around 17C - 18C.

Thanks Dave, mine are certainly looking fat! ill reconsider colour that’s good to know.

Just did some tests, ammonia has jumped from 0-1 in the last few days! that’s the culprit and a few more are taking breaks on the bottom. Doing a 25% water change and will do another few over the next few days. Lesson learned


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[davethefish1]

Thanks Dave, mine are certainly looking fat! ill reconsider colour that’s good to know.

Just did some tests, ammonia has jumped from 0-1 in the last few days! that’s the culprit and a few more are taking breaks on the bottom. Doing a 25% water change and will do another few over the next few days. Lesson learned


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at least you have identified the problem and sorted a solution

that's one of the reasons the Japanese don't re-start feeding once they have stopped feeding in winter.
the filter bacteria die back with less waste from the fish, and a sudden warm spell and food can lead to ammonia and nitrite spikes.

[james9489]

at least you have identified the problem and sorted a solution

that's one of the reasons the Japanese don't re-start feeding once they have stopped feeding in winter.
the filter bacteria die back with less waste from the fish, and a sudden warm spell and food can lead to ammonia and nitrite spikes.

Ah I knew all this , but the temptation of watching them feed took over the greedy buggers. Whole pack already looking more happy mid water change. I try to keep KH at 6 and Ph is around 7.5 so hoping this will keep the ammonia relatively safe. I can smell summer can’t wait


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[james9489]

Ah I knew all this , but the temptation of watching them feed took over the greedy buggers. Whole pack already looking more happy mid water change. I try to keep KH at 6 and Ph is around 7.5 so hoping this will keep the ammonia relatively safe. I can smell summer can’t wait


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Update, I think I may have taken the test wrong as ammonia now at 0. The same fish is flashing now and again swimming like it’s weighted compared the the others and racing the the top and gulping then going back down? I was thinking constipation but now bacterial or alike?!


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[g mac]

I had a fish behaving like this last winter. I gave it a salt bath every other day for a two week period, it seemed to do the trick.

[Manky Sanke]

This is a simple feeding guide I made to show students on the Nutrition course I teach for Koi Organisation International how feeding should vary through the year.

[james9489]

I had a fish behaving like this last winter. I gave it a salt bath every other day for a two week period, it seemed to do the trick.

Thanks for sharing, I will look into salt baths if things do not improve. The whole clan are now taking turns to rest on the bottom at 9c which is a new thing..


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[james9489]

This is a simple feeding guide I made to show students on the Nutrition course I teach for Koi Organisation International how feeding should vary through the year.

Thank you, that’s very handy. I will adopt the 1 min rule. At 8-10c I have been throwing out a handful twice a day which probably takes 3-5mins for them to consume and find every pellet. Pretty sure I have overfed and then a major temp drop overnight may be to blame?


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[Manky Sanke]

I'm a bit strict with my recommended winter feeding regime, working on the principle that, if they're hungry, they will eat the food within one minute and, if they miss out by being too slow, they will be quicker next time.

Others at Koi Organisation International aren't quite so strict and recommend a very similar regime as to the temperatures but allow two or three minutes when the water is cold before clearing away any uneaten food.

So when the water is cold, you can choose whether to be strict like me or allow a bit longer like my softie colleagues in America . Either way, feed only what will be eaten quickly and don't leave any excess food in case they fancy a snack a couple of hours later.

BTW in general, koi food starts leaching its minerals, vitamins and, sometimes, its oil content pretty much as soon as it's in the water so it will become less nutritious the longer it floats. Regardless of temperature, don't leave food floating on the surface after the main feeding rush and the extra time for the shy feeders to get their fair share. A good way to manage feeding is to throw in a small amount of food first and add more as it gets eaten until no one is interested.

[james9489]

I'm a bit strict with my recommended winter feeding regime, working on the principle that, if they're hungry, they will eat the food within one minute and, if they miss out by being too slow, they will be quicker next time.

Others at Koi Organisation International aren't quite so strict and recommend a very similar regime as to the temperatures but allow two or three minutes when the water is cold before clearing away any uneaten food.

So when the water is cold, you can choose whether to be strict like me or allow a bit longer like my softie colleagues in America . Either way, feed only what will be eaten quickly and don't leave any excess food in case they fancy a snack a couple of hours later.

BTW in general, koi food starts leaching its minerals, vitamins and, sometimes, its oil content pretty much as soon as it's in the water so it will become less nutritious the longer it floats. Regardless of temperature, don't leave food floating on the surface after the main feeding rush and the extra time for the shy feeders to get their fair share. A good way to manage feeding is to throw in a small amount of food first and add more as it gets eaten until no one is interested.

That’s a good rule of thumb, mine seem to be hungry down to 5c but I have refrained and allowed 1 wheatgerm pellet each daily at 6-7c, they have been fully active down to these temps with only one taking a rest in the very cold snap, which I was pleased with.

Steep learning curve but looks like I’m dealing with all that food and no filter bacteria this week! Ammonia up to 0.25 and everyone looking more happy, a few taking breaks to rest but the most concerning seems to have lost its bloat, and swimming more normal. Not looking forward to the nitrite spike and can’t wait to get fully heated!Thanks for all the information, it’s priceless


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[john1]

If they look for food then I give it but only 2 or 3 pellets to see how hungry they really are as per Manky said.

Koi are naturally very greedy and hate one of their buddies getting " that pellet " so eat it before they do whether they really want it or not

[james9489]

If they look for food then I give it but only 2 or 3 pellets to see how hungry they really are as per Manky said.

Koi are naturally very greedy and hate one of their buddies getting " that pellet " so eat it before they do whether they really want it or not

Cheers John, I’ll try my best. They would eat the whole bag from what I can see. I’ll have to pop over this summer and likewise. I’m hoping to finish the rockwork and waterfall in a few months, and shift that 4 tonnes of earth out of sight

Hope all is well


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[john1]

Thanks James all well here,your more than welcome to come over in Chester arnt you?

[james9489]

Thanks James all well here,your more than welcome to come over in Chester arnt you?

Thanks John, Yep no far at all, will have to pop over when the weather finally arrives!


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[john1]

Sounds good James and we can swap a tip or two

[james9489]

Little update - the bio seems to have caught up now and ammonia at 0, nitrite 0 - everyone off again and no resting. No flashing either for 2 days, phew.


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