Yet Another Fluke Diary!

[davethefish1]

Dave how do you keep pond walls so clean not a shred of string algae? I keep pulling it off mine and this is despite adding Aqua Source Resolve regularly. Maybe I do too much water change with just tap water?

i use aquasource resolve occasionally, usually late spring or early summer.
but keeping nitrates and phosphates low restricts the food algae need to grow...

you can use anoxic baskets, veg filters, RO, RRO, or anoxic trickle towers.
or even water changes if your source water quality is high, and nitrates and phosphates are low...

[davethefish1]

3 doses of lernex pro in the main pond didn't kill any flukes on the shiro.
so when she went in the QT pond she had 40 odd flukes on one scrape and 20 odd on the other.
i did one dose CT then one dose SV.

just had the shiro out to scrape and treat the sores.
just done 3 scrapes, two had no flukes, one had 2 adult flukes.
i'm pretty impressed with the SV, so just done another dose to see if i can finish those last few off....

[NamoAmituofo]

I read somewhere the magic number for SV exposure is 10 days - for total annihilation of flukes and eggs! This is of course for use without salt. There’s another school of SV advocates who use it with 0.3% salt and I recall the recommended exposure is 4-5 days.

[davethefish1]

I read somewhere the magic number for SV exposure is 10 days - for total annihilation of flukes and eggs! This is of course for use without salt. There’s another school of SV advocates who use it with 0.3% salt and I recall the recommended exposure is 4-5 days.

yes mate, this is covered in Erik L Johnsons book 'Kio health and disease 2'
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
of the systems that were tested, some were salted and some not, but the ones that weren't salted also had carbon in the fiters.
but there was no follow up to see if it was the salt that made the SV work better, or that there was carbon in the filters of the unsalted ponds.

the unsalted were dosed on day one, and a double dose on day 2!
but as said, they had carbon filters on those systems so my money would be that it was reapidly removed by the carbon nessecitating the follow up doses.
i reckon you could possibly outright kill your fish with a double dose of SV in one day

he also metioned in the book that some systems required a 'clean up' dose on day 10, as some flukes were still found.
but some systems were deemed fluke free after one dose. though the voracity to come to a conclusion without follow up scrapes over time can't confirm a 100% kill rate.

[samp09]

What a difference that is by treating in the QT Dave, I will definitely execute a similar plan in future I think if needed, to be honest I would also be tempted to do it if I got a new fish. Could be a good way to ensure it's parasite free by adding to a QT and scraping then doing a precautionary PP followed by Fluke treatment then second one before adding to the main pond.

[davethefish1]

What a difference that is by treating in the QT Dave, I will definitely execute a similar plan in future I think if needed, to be honest I would also be tempted to do it if I got a new fish. Could be a good way to ensure it's parasite free by adding to a QT and scraping then doing a precautionary PP followed by Fluke treatment then second one before adding to the main pond.

Yes mate I'll be doing similar on the main pond, but not until the shower has gone.

Still don't fix the buoyancy issue but at least I'm getting on top if the flukes and I will know that isn't the reason...

[john1]

Good news there Dave,not an expert but I would be leaving the Shiro in the solution as long as poss with no water changes and no food.

[davethefish1]

Good news there Dave,not an expert but I would be leaving the Shiro in the solution as long as poss with no water changes and no food.

I agree mate,
If I get the flukes sorted and scrapes are clear, in a week or two, I'll be salting the QT to help with the buoyancy.

[RS2OOO]

Today is the 5th day since administering first dose of Lernex Pro.

Over half the 14 fish no longer show any symptoms and flashing injuries are healing.
A few are still flashing but not ridiculously so, just a handful of times a day each.
And there's 3 or 4 stand out fish still flashing quite regularly, with a couple of these still lunking and jumping. The worst one is my resident fluke magnet (Doitsu Ochiba) who was a nightmare to deal with when I last had flukes in 2019. She's still quite heavily mucused up but not as bad as she has been. She's also lost weight.

So 3 of these 4 standout fish happen to be the ones carrying most mucus. The questions this leads to are:

• Is the heavy mucus simply a result of heavy infestation and therefore more work is required on these fish?
• Or, is the heavy mucus just down the individual koi's immune response and the treatment cannot get through it?

Having changed 1500 litres today I've just administered another 50 grams of CT.
Water is still murky due to UV having been off. I turned it on last night running it for 24 hours and just switched it back off.

Tomorrow I shall administer the 2nd dose of Lernex Pro. Dosage for my pond should be 750ml but I'll do as I did last time and dose 800ml, then the following day I'll put the remaining 200ml in.

[Maddog1]

Today is the 5th day since administering first dose of Lernex Pro.

Over half the 14 fish no longer show any symptoms and flashing injuries are healing.
A few are still flashing but not ridiculously so, just a handful of times a day each.
And there's 3 or 4 stand out fish still flashing quite regularly, with a couple of these still lunking and jumping. The worst one is my resident fluke magnet (Doitsu Ochiba) who was a nightmare to deal with when I last had flukes in 2019. She's still quite heavily mucused up but not as bad as she has been. She's also lost weight.

So 3 of these 4 standout fish happen to be the ones carrying most mucus. The questions this leads to are:

• Is the heavy mucus simply a result of heavy infestation and therefore more work is required on these fish?
• Or, is the heavy mucus just down the individual koi's immune response and the treatment cannot get through it?

Having changed 1500 litres today I've just administered another 50 grams of CT.
Water is still murky due to UV having been off. I turned it on last night running it for 24 hours and just switched it back off.

Tomorrow I shall administer the 2nd dose of Lernex Pro. Dosage for my pond should be 750ml but I'll do as I did last time and dose 800ml, then the following day I'll put the remaining 200ml in.

Hi RS/ Sounds like a step in the right direction. That's the trouble, I find with scale less fish, less protection against knocks,scrapes and parasites. I think Andy Daily CT three days in a row to strip the mucus back, when he did the lernex Pro.

[Maddog1]

Could you give the fish with a thick mucus layer CT baths?

[NamoAmituofo]

Alternative, you could consider putting the worst affected fish in QT and do 6-8hrs of PP starting with light doses say 2ppm and top up as needed. PP is more effective at stripping off mucus and the thick type can literally peel off

[RS2OOO]

No QT here unfortunately and not something I've got space for in the foreseeable.

There is of course the option to run CT over consecutive days.

I'm away for 3 weeks at end of the month so am also against the clock to get things settled before then.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[john1]

Good luck with whatever you do mate,need it sorted before your away.

[RS2OOO]

Good luck with whatever you do mate,need it sorted before your away.

I think with cooling temps I can at the very least knock the flukes back enough so the koi aren't all over the lawn when I return!

But a fluke free pond is far more preferable.

And I don't want to contribute to resistant flukes by not getting them all nuked during a single course of treatment.

In a couple of hours I'll do a DPD4 test, neutralise any remaining CT (I've just put UV back on for the afternoon to help towards that), switch shower and UV back off and get on with the next dose. Already have the smoothie maker on the kitchen side ready

Also, due to the heavy rainfall I'll drain an inch of water out the pond to stop the rain overflowing pond and diluting treatment.

[john1]

All the best with it mate.

[davethefish1]

yes mate, hope you get it sorted before your hols

[RS2OOO]

2nd dose of lernex pro went in tonight as planned.

In the 2 hours after first dose the koi were literally climbing the walls, 100s of flashes.

Tonight I didn't hang around for too long to watch, but in the 20 minutes or so I was watching there were only 2 flashes, one each from the 2 fish with heaviest mucus.

I ran the shower for 5 minutes just to get some treatment into it before closing it off, pumps stayed off for 2 hours and when restarted the drum was bypassed. UV off.

Interestingly 800ml of this treatment in the same measuring jug as before used a lot less treatment than last time. Definitely a fair bit more left in the tub than last time.

I wonder why?

I'll probably chuck the rest in tomorrow evening regardless, no point having the remaining 200ml sitting on the shelf. (But I will measure it out to see if it really is 200ml, because last time there was less than 100ml left despite using the same method up measure it out).

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[Maddog1]

2nd dose of lernex pro went in tonight as planned.

In the 2 hours after first dose the koi were literally climbing the walls, 100s of flashes.

Tonight I didn't hang around for too long to watch, but in the 20 minutes or so I was watching there were only 2 flashes, one each from the 2 fish with heaviest mucus.

I ran the shower for 5 minutes just to get some treatment into it before closing it off, pumps stayed off for 2 hours and when restarted the drum was bypassed. UV off.

Interestingly 800ml of this treatment in the same measuring jug as before used a lot less treatment than last time. Definitely a fair bit more left in the tub than last time.

I wonder why?

I'll probably chuck the rest in tomorrow evening regardless, no point having the remaining 200ml sitting on the shelf. (But I will measure it out to see if it really is 200ml, because last time there was less than 100ml left despite using the same method up measure it out).

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

Hi mate. Shows it's having an effect. Is that even with the 3 or 4 with the thicker mucus. I'm going to treat mine tonight. Left it 7 days from the last treatment.And I might use the last up, by dosing the next two days of 50% doses. The fish look really happy and feeding well.

Sent from my moto e(6) plus using Tapatalk

[RS2OOO]

Hi mate. Shows it's having an effect. Is that even with the 3 or 4 with the thicker mucus. I'm going to treat mine tonight. Left it 7 days from the last treatment.And I might use the last up, by dosing the next two days of 50% doses. The fish look really happy and feeding well.

Sent from my moto e(6) plus using Tapatalk

Last time I used lernex pro in old pond the fish were really unhappy, clamped etc for days.

This time they are all asking for food etc and remaining active.

So I wonder if previously there was some kind of interaction to something else in the water. Instructions do say not to use within 2 weeks of using alparex.

2 of those with thicker mucus seem to be slowly returning to normal, arguably 3 of them.
Heaviest mucus being the Doitsu ochiba which is carrying so much there's Tufts of it hanging off. It could easily be mistaken for fungus in some places. She's still coming up for food though, but definitely lost weight.

If you have enough product left for 2x 50% doses you might be better off keeping it just in case a future full dose is needed.
In my situation with just 20% of a dose remaining I might as well top up the dose and use it up.


Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk