Bacterial Problems.

[Maddog1]

Hi Everyone/ Seen a couple of cases of Bacterial problems on youtube recently, were people have lost or had to destroyed all their fish stocks. And had to strip down their ponds and filters e.t.c. And basically leave everything in bleach to kill the bad bacteria. I have a little understanding of the subject and would like to discuss and learn more on the subject,if possible? My understanding it could be brought on by poor water quality ,husbandry and filter maintenance. Any stress brought on from predators , poor handing. And anything really resulting from low immune system even due to poor diet, over stocking, introducing new fish..And a term of parasites bringing on low immune system. And even heard that overtime the bacteria had found it's way into the fishes blood stream. And the only way to have a chance was to send a blood swab or blood sample to a Laboratory to find out which of the two bacteria it was to find out what to treat it with? So Sad just seeing the fish eaten away by the bacteria. I heard the fish looked good, started with a mark and three days later the fish were died. How heart breaking all they could do was start again!

[KiOgon]

Virkon Aquatic is your friend, tablets, or granular cheapest way to buy it and dilute at home.

https://sphsupplies.co.uk/fish/673-v...der-500gm.html

[davethefish1]

really sad to see,
but i don't think these bacterial problems just happen overnight.

what a lot don't consider these days is a pond has good and bad bacteria in it and alway will have, but tip the scales in favor of the wrong kind,
and you can end up with problems that seem to come from nowhere because they have been building slowly for a long time.
they build up a bio mass of bad bacteria in the pond that just dosing with CT or other bactericides won't cure, because the bacterial balance has to be moved back in favor of the good bacteria...

years ago a pond wasn't considered 'mature' until 4+ years of running without any major problems. and no one fully stocked a pond in just a year or two...
there is more than just ammonia and nitrite cycling to pond maturity, but how many ponds do see on FB and YT that are fully stocked 6 months from the build finishing.
and i'm not saying it can't be done, but they see someone else who may be more experienced build a pond from scratch and immediately fully stock it, and just assume they can just do the same.

[Maddog1]

Hi Dave. Thank you for your input, I think you have hit the nail on the head! That's the a big point I have overlooked. And I agree fully, makes perfect sense

[davethefish1]

As you have said though, there can be lots of contributing factors,
and no two ponds are ever the same...

[RS2OOO]

Slugs / Snails / frogs could be another initial supplier of bad bacteria.


I follow a couple of koi whatsapp groups and have witnessed similar bacteria issues (wondering if one might be related to the video you watched as someone did mention the guy in the chat had a channel - do you know what channel that was?).

The process of resolving seems to be a minefield, and one that is expensive and takes (too much) time to get to the bottom of.

By the time you are sure a bacterial issue is the cause of issues you have likely already been down the rabbit hole, and received repetitive forum advice telling you to scrape / test water / scrape again etc. Because most of the time, especially with people new to the hobby (sub 3-4 years), the cause is often not bacterial.

A situation I had last year was eventually put down to being caused by toxic pollen getting into the pond (by Paula Reynolds). Not in a million years would I have worked that out myself. The physical symptoms appeared bacterial, but the koi behaviour pointed to parasites.

As Dave says balance is key, but once you get to the stage where the only possible cause just has to be bacterial, then (according to law) you need a swab and confirmation of what type of bacteria, then you need a vet to physically see the fish before they will prescribe. On top of that most vets won't come to you. On the koi group I was following the guy had to take a 60cm fish down the vets to get the prescription.

[davethefish1]

one piece of advise i would give about vets is to try and get one on board before you need one, as it can take time to get access to one.
if you have other pets that require vet treatment try and building a few bridges when you are paying for other treatment.
they can be more receptive to help if they already have your business for your other pets.

some won't go out to ponds because they don't specialise in koi, 95% of thier work probably being cats and dogs.
also some dealers have access to local vets that others don't, because they know they are prepared to pay for the full cost of getting a vet to do a home visit.
and won't argue over the treatment if the a fish or the even whole pond doesn't survive.
but if you can get a local dealer to reccommend you to one ,(because you are a valued customer ), you stand a better chance.

[Maddog1]

Slugs / Snails / frogs could be another initial supplier of bad bacteria.


I follow a couple of koi whatsapp groups and have witnessed similar bacteria issues (wondering if one might be related to the video you watched as someone did mention the guy in the chat had a channel - do you know what channel that was?).

The process of resolving seems to be a minefield, and one that is expensive and takes (too much) time to get to the bottom of.

By the time you are sure a bacterial issue is the cause of issues you have likely already been down the rabbit hole, and received repetitive forum advice telling you to scrape / test water / scrape again etc. Because most of the time, especially with people new to the hobby (sub 3-4 years), the cause is often not bacterial.

A situation I had last year was eventually put down to being caused by toxic pollen getting into the pond (by Paula Reynolds). Not in a million years would I have worked that out myself. The physical symptoms appeared bacterial, but the koi behaviour pointed to parasites.

As Dave says balance is key, but once you get to the stage where the only possible cause just has to be bacterial, then (according to law) you need a swab and confirmation of what type of bacteria, then you need a vet to physically see the fish before they will prescribe. On top of that most vets won't come to you. On the koi group I was following the guy had to take a 60cm fish down the vets to get the prescription.

Hi RS2000. At the moment there are two on going bad cases on youtube with bad bacteria issues and the other guy released the remaining stock into a private lake, pond. Whether or not he had permission, I don't know! One can only imagination? Bleach all his pond for a week. And went out a bought some more fish only to start again. He stated he had issues for four years! Don't want to name him, just incase he comes on here. But there's a few red flags there!

[RS2OOO]

Hi RS2000. At the moment there are two on going bad cases on youtube with bad bacteria issues and the other guy released the remaining stock into a private lake, pond. Whether or not he had permission, I don't know! One can only imagination? Bleach all his pond for a week. And went out a bought some more fish only to start again. He stated he had issues for four years! Don't want to name him, just incase he comes on here. But there's a few red flags there!

I still can't find the relevant YouTube channels, but why would anyone put infected fish into a lake?

I won't even put my pond water over the garden if there's a problem with the koi or if I've been using certain treatments.

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[Maddog1]

Hi/ watched a upload of his at the weekend and his second pond is now suffering with bacterial problems, raised scales. Breaks my heart,poor fish!

[RS2OOO]

Hi/ watched a upload of his at the weekend and his second pond is now suffering with bacterial problems, raised scales. Breaks my heart,poor fish!

What's the name of the channel?

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[KiOgon]

What's the name of the channel?

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I would also like to know please.

[CobraKoi]

https://www.youtube.com/@koibeginnings/videos

Maybe this channel ?

[davethefish1]

https://www.youtube.com/@koibeginnings/videos

Maybe this channel ?

just watched that latest video.... terrible whats happening

i do wonder where the bacterial problems are coming from...
does he have a purge line on the bead filter and nexus he has?

i remember adam julyan putting a diesel powered surface pump on his nexus inlet and he pulled a fair bit of crap from the bottom drain pipework.
and he regularly purges his nexus this way to stop crap from building up...

[Potts021090]

just watched that latest video.... terrible whats happening

i do wonder where the bacterial problems are coming from...
does he have a purge line on the bead filter and nexus he has?

i remember adam julyan putting a diesel powered surface pump on his nexus inlet and he pulled a fair bit of crap from the bottom drain pipework.
and he regularly purges his nexus this way to stop crap from building up...

If you watch back Dave, i believe his problems all started after introducing a fish from a grow and show where said fish weren't quarantined before they were released to customers!

All the fish were recalled, but the damage has already been done.... At least 3 other youtubers who were in the grow and show have been affected and are having similar bacterial problems.

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[davethefish1]

If you watch back Dave, i believe his problems all started after introducing a fish from a grow and show where said fish weren't quarantined before they were released to customers!

All the fish were recalled, but the damage has already been done.... At least 3 other youtubers who were in the grow and show have been affected and are having similar bacterial problems.

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thats unbelivable that a company would sell un quarantined fish!

[john1]

Hope they were reported.

[Potts021090]

I'm not going to say any names but it has certainly opened my eyes!

I have since invested in my own quarantine setup and I'll be going through my own quarantine period from now on, regardless were they come from!

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[john1]

I'm not going to say any names but it has certainly opened my eyes!

I have since invested in my own quarantine setup and I'll be going through my own quarantine period from now on, regardless were they come from!

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No, you shouldn't say any names on here.

[Alburglar]

It isn't really worth worrying about where the bad bacteria has come from. It could've been anything! Usually bad water is the catalyst driving bacterial inbalance problems.
Surely standard practice would be:
Something topical like tamadine
then
Massive water change.
PP
Massive water change
Virkon
Massive water change
salt

Anyone can be caught out, coming out of winter, and lose a fish if your not paying attention but to ditch a whole pond sounds ridiculous.
-surely this is nothing that the basics couldn't sort as above