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  1. #1

    Help identifying possible disease

    Hi all. Can anyone help me identify what this issue is with this fish? Iíve posted a picture below. Many thanks609DE440-2B12-402A-9A9E-DC2D2D95070F.jpg



  2. #2
    I have just done a permanganate dip which is probably what looks like blood below the wound

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi mate,

    Please DO NOT take the next sentence as ‘having a go’ as I am not like that but am conscious of how it may read...

    Please don’t PP dip the fish again mate as this is one of the harshest treatments for them and should only be adopted when absolutely necessary- albeit what you and I refer to as a PP dip may well differ of course.... having said that it is acknowledged you have only done that as you believed it was an appropriate course of action.

    In respect of the fish it is a little hard to tell as the PP may be making things look worse as you identify, but it looks like a knock (perhaps a mirror scale was there previously???) which has turned into a small (open??) wound and possibly ulcerated?

    Knocks are often caused (not always) after other problems exist I.e. water quality issues or parasites which cause the koi to flick and flash. Have you checked these? Are the other Koi OK and behaving as expected?

    In terms of treatment... assuming water parameters are OK and no there are parasites, then the wound will need to be cleaned, treated and monitored daily. Ideally with the Koi under light sedation- sorry not sure on your experience ? However happy to explain more if needed - please do not be afraid on here to ask questions as there are loads of very helpful and experienced members who will always reply THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION IS THE ONE THAT IS NOT ASKED AND THE ANSWER IS GUESSED.

    For cleaning there are a number of products you could use including Hydrogen Peroxide and PP which can be swabbed onto the dry wound. After that, some antibacterial/ propolis spray, tamodine or iodine can be applied and possibly then a protective coating / wound sealer - however you must be sure the wound is fully cleaned or you run the risk of sealing in bacteria. Kusuri do a nice ulcer / wound kit which contains appropriate products, which I have available on my website £44.99 delivered

    Beyond that, you are looking a a Baytril injection course which is a little more advanced.

    If the pond is culpable for higher bacterial loads the. Treatments can be added such as Acriflavin to reduce levels along side water changes and deep cleans.

    I hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Ecoís, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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  5. #4
    Hi Gaz

    Thanks a lot for your response and I don't take any offence to anything you've said and I am always open to any help and advice people can offer. My view is with any form of fish keeping you never stop learning!

    In terms of my experience level, I'm a relative beginner to Koi Keeping although not to fish keeping (I kept marines for many years). I completed a large c 50,000 litre system last September and this is running off 2 x Nexus 320's and a large Japanese Gravel filter in the the pond itself. Water parameters are good, Amonia and Nitrite untraceable and pH of about 8.0.

    In terms of the Permanganate, just to be clear, I used the NT Labs liquid product (not the crystal form) which states it can be used for a dip at a dose rate of 10ml per 38 litres. Should I not have done this?

    The only other potential issue I have with the pond is Ich (white spot) as a couple of the fish appear to have this on their fins and have been rubbing. I have just ordered NT Labs "Eradick" treatment which is a 5 day course to treat the pond which i'll start tomorrow. I would probably have used something else but unfortunately I have two Orfe in the pond which limits my scope for treatment (I am thinking of removing the Orfe completely for exactly this reason). Can you suggest anything else for treatment of Ich or would you recommend the Eradick?

    In terms of the would itself, just making sure you're looking at the right thing as perhaps its not obvious from the picture but the pinkish area above what looks like blood is actually a small raised lump. I wondered it it might in fact just be carp pox? It's definitely not originated from a missing scale of anything like that as the skin is all in-tact - it's just this pinking lump which has formed which is concerning me.

    I'm not sure I'd feel confident doing the sedation at this stage although perhaps I should be brave enough to give it a go. I think I will certainly use the Antiseptic Spray although how effective would that be if there is no open wound?

    I had no issues at all with anything until I imported 3 fish recently from another system so I wonder if anything hitch-hiked in? That said the three fish I purchased (ebay) came from a very well maintained pond and an experienced keeper and the fish were originally from Cuttlebrook.

    In terms of the Hydrogen Peroxide, can this be used as a wound cleaner because everything I've read seems to suggest its used only for re-oxygenation?

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond it is greatly appreciated and i'll take a look on the website

    Cheers
    Ben

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  7. #5
    Hi again Gaz,

    The only other thing I was going to mention was that during the last 2 months I have used the Nishikoi Clear Waters blanket weed treatment which has done a fantastic job removing the blanket weed (slowly but surely). The blanket weed has been removed from the pond either through the mechanical filtration (K1 micro media in the Nexus), skimmer or manually removed. I just wonder if this treatment could have upset anything in the fish? I have stacks of aeration with two large ceramic air discs and a waterfall.

    Thanks
    Ben

    Ben

  8. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi Ben,

    Apologies for the delayed response.

    As is most likely the case in Marine, many things in Koi divide the crowd and there is always more than one way...

    Personally I would only use PP as a dip (very rarely) or to treat specific parasites as this is harsh to the Koi and filter - albeit one of the quickest treatments and most controllable should things go wrong.

    To me, two Orfe in a significant Koi pond will always limit choice in respect of treatments which may prove debilitating over time. Whilst clearly I do not know if there is any sentiment attaching to these, I would personally seriously consider moving them on...

    I don’t know about Eradick TBH as I have never used it and nor do I stock it so I am not the best person on here to make comment unfortunately. I’m sure someone will be along soon that can share their experience with such.

    Re the ‘injury’ i was looking towards the tail and not the small pink lump which is hard to see clearly - are you able to get a better picture?

    I have coached a few members through Koi sedation using video chat / face time and would be happy to do similar if needed for you.

    New additions can cause disruption with pathogens and parasites at times so that cannot be ruled out.

    HP can be used to clean a koi wound by ‘dabbing’ on with a appropriate pad.

    Re blanket weed treatment, I only use Aquasource Resolve which rarely causes issues. Again I have no first hand experience with the product you mention...

    I hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    07598327049
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Ecoís, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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