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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    First Time With Formalin & Malachite Green

    Hi. I have a fish which lost its equilibrium and went over on its side. I assumed that this was due to the cold. (First real winter unheated)

    I also noticed a patch of fungus. So I removed this fish and put her in a vat on her own. No buddy. I would normally add a buddy but I had seen her go from upright to on her side, just from the current of another fish swimming past.

    I salted the vat at 0.3% but she remained on her side and the fungus grew back.

    I increased the heat to 20

    And crept the salt up to 0.6%

    I scraped the fungus away and painted with malachite Green.

    It seemed to do the trick. However amongst the fungus was something which may be chilodonella.

    I decided to hit the vat with FMG but before I could do, I had to creep the salinity back down to under 0.1%

    Before the salinity reached 0.1% I saw the fungus had returned as well as another patch near to the gill plate. I removed both and found costia amongst it.

    Reading Duncan's book, I came across 1 line that said a symptom of costia is fish lying on their side.

    Ahaaa Thank you Duncan.

    I began adding FMG on Friday 24th

    On Sunday 26th the koi was upright on its own. I was thrilled but she did have a small white hole on top of her head. This wasn't fungus. I took a scrape from the hole but found nothing. Not even saprolegnia.

    By Monday morning she back in her side but by Monday night she was upright again and has been ever since.

    So, should I treat again?

    How long do I wait? Temp is 19-21

    It says do a 15% water change. Why is that? Why only 15% I'm not arguing. Just wondering why only 15%

    I assume she is OK to feed during all this?




    Photo of the saprolegnia with one "chilodonella" and then one of the "chilodonella". Video + other photos to follow.

    Screenshot_20210419_115354_com.simplemobiletools.gallery.pro.jpgScreenshot_20210419_115453_com.simplemobiletools.gallery.pro.jpg



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  3. #2
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    If it was only the chilo, then 1 treatment would probably be enough. But if you think you also saw costia, and there’s fungus too, I would personally do a second treatment after 5 days. Then rescrape a week later.

  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Hiya. Thanks Lara. You were absolutely right. I think maybe I underdosed out of caution.

    Since she had done so well on Monday, I thought I would give her the day off from me poking and prodding. So as she was upright, i didn't need to hand feed. So I threw in some sinking food and stayed clear of the tank.

    I wish I hadn't.

    When I looked on Wednesday, she was still upright but to myg dismay, there was fungus back in the places it was before as well as some new places.

    Gutted.

    And I found more of the chilodonella among the fungus.

    There was some caudal fin erosion, a small ulcer and potential 2nd ulcer on her underside. As well as another red fin and potential ulceration on her flank (underlying redness). I'm sending the photos to Paula and my local vet.

    So today I added a second dose. I made sure it wasn't underdosed. Then I gave the filter on the vat a good clean, rinsing the mechanical side in a solution of very dilute FMG (It was dirtier than i anticipated, considering I only built it the week before last)

    If it will let me, I will upload some of the images I sent the vet. I'm not uploading the caudal fin image because part of the fin is transparent, so it looks much worse than it is.

    Hopefully found some. One of them should show the fungus I removed on a slide.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    I am 90% sure I saw costia. I have a video somewhere....

  6. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Costia is at 26 seconds. If nothing else you can laugh watching my attempts to follow it round with a red circle.

    https://youtu.be/V8HqljJPaJM

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  8. #6
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Yes, it is costia. Plus I can see costia on the chilo footage too.

  9. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Thanks. I haven't taken the fish out again so it's difficult to judge but the white area behind her head appears to have receded.

    Should the fungus vanish if the F&MG has worked?


    When can I change some water in the tank? I haven't tested the ammonia in there because I put some ammonia binder in, in case the filter wasn't up to it. It's a new homemade filter but the media is from the pond.

    Paula agrees something bacterial. She said other things too but I don't like to quote her in case I miss-quote.

    I emailed the vet but have yet to hear back from them. There is a possibility that they might not want to get involved. I had some issues last year with a different branch of the same vet. So I may have been blacklisted.

    Not that I did anything wrong. They just stopped taking my phone calls and replying to emails. All of which were polite and non-antagonistic.

    So I will wait till Monday afternoon and then try some other vets,

    (Feline - Shut your eyes for a second or two)

    .... failing that, I'll have to pester some local farmers.

    (It's OK to look again now Feline)

    I'm building a larger filter now. Hopefully will take more flow.

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  11. #8
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Asagi View Post
    Thanks. I haven't taken the fish out again so it's difficult to judge but the white area behind her head appears to have receded.

    Should the fungus vanish if the F&MG has worked?


    When can I change some water in the tank? I haven't tested the ammonia in there because I put some ammonia binder in, in case the filter wasn't up to it. It's a new homemade filter but the media is from the pond.

    Paula agrees something bacterial. She said other things too but I don't like to quote her in case I miss-quote.

    I emailed the vet but have yet to hear back from them. There is a possibility that they might not want to get involved. I had some issues last year with a different branch of the same vet. So I may have been blacklisted.

    Not that I did anything wrong. They just stopped taking my phone calls and replying to emails. All of which were polite and non-antagonistic.

    So I will wait till Monday afternoon and then try some other vets,

    (Feline - Shut your eyes for a second or two)

    .... failing that, I'll have to pester some local farmers.

    (It's OK to look again now Feline)

    I'm building a larger filter now. Hopefully will take more flow.
    You do realise it’s a bank holiday Monday Justin
    The entire veterinary profession is understaffed and in a bit of a crisis trying to cope under pandemic conditions currently, so you might not get a timely response unfortunately.

  12. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Update - I don't know If the FMG has worked or not.

    As of yesterday I found no parasites on the koi at all but there was one area of fungus still remaining.

    I'm not sure what to do.

    The caudal fin erosion appears to have worsened but apart from that the ulceration seems to have calmed down.

    I'm unable to obtain antibiotics so far but still trying.

    Any suggestions?

  13. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Actually I had forgotten it was Bank Holiday but they did get back to me suggesting somewhere in Swindon.

  14. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Thanks a bunch. Well I've been turned away from most vets in my town now.

    So I'm going to have to euthanise the fish. Then myself.

 

 

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