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  1. #1

    Best time of year to treat flukes

    Hi everyone. I am new here and have been trying to find the answer to this question but could not. I have a small pond that I inherited from previous owners hopefully to extend in the future to a bigger one. It is pear shaped 2x3.5x0.5m 3000L. I have a fluke problem at the moment and I only have 5 young koi and a few goldfish. I ordered lernex pro but now not sure if I should go ahead and treat with the current temperatures or should I wait until spring. If I treat now, how long of a time gap should I leave before dosing again? Unfortunately I don't currently own a thermometer so I am not sure what the temperature of the pond is. Any advice would be much appreciated.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai samp09's Avatar
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    I would imagine your pond will be around 12 degrees at the moment given the current temperature. I am not an expert but if I knew I had a fluke issue I would treat asap as leaving them over the winter would seem suicidal to me, weaker immune systems and for a good 3 months would only make the issue a lot worse in my mind.

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    If flukes are definitely there treat anyway. The worst that can happen is the treatment will not be quite as effective as it would be. You might want to extend the interval between doses slightly if they are egg laying Gill flukes since life cycle takes longer at lower temps. If it’s body flukes then would not make much difference and you can stick with the bottle recommendation.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Apologies for the uncharacteristic and blunt question/observation however in your post you have diagnosed flukes,selected Lernex Pro as a potential course of treatment (which would have took some investigating) yet you have no idea what temp you are which would have cost a couple of quid... and you rightly identify is a consideration prior to treating......

    All seems odd to me.... maybe a thermometer will help you..,

    Cheers

    Gaz
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Ecoís, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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  6. #5
    That's perfect. I know i need to retreat after eggs hatch so how long would you leave it before I should treat again? I also hear people sometimes play it safe and treat 3 times. Is this something that you would advise? Thanks again for all the advice

  7. #6
    You are absolutely right Gaz. I am looking to get one. I am a total newby and still learning. A lot of credit to this forum really.

  8. #7
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnmm View Post
    That's perfect. I know i need to retreat after eggs hatch so how long would you leave it before I should treat again? I also hear people sometimes play it safe and treat 3 times. Is this something that you would advise? Thanks again for all the advice
    Have you identified which type of flukes you have under the microscope?

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  10. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Have you identified which type of flukes you have under the microscope?
    Well, this is embarrassing. I purchased all the koi earlier this year in 2 stages so they are all only a few months old. Impossible for me to catch without causing them a lot of stress. They were displaying typical behaviour for 3 months so I tried 2 treatments of FGM and 2 treatments of pp with no improvement whatsoever. I read a lot about flukes and the behaviour I observe might fit. I know treating blindly is not the best way and I might even get some telling off but I have tried a few times to catch them with no success so not sure what else to do. I wanted to start off with baby koi so we enjoy them growing.

  11. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Where are you based?

    Please stop guessing at problems - there are plenty of people on here who may be local to you and willing to visit etc...

    If the koi are as young as you say and they have endured that level of treatment in a short space of time, it is rather fortunate they are still alive.

    If you are struggling to catch them (will be easier as the weather gets colder) you will need to change your net. Koi should be able to be caught quickly and without too much stress to them or the keeper.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Ecoís, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
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    Hi Gnmm,

    Welcome to the forum. I commend you for doing your research, but I’m afraid you have missed some vital steps before going in with your treatments.

    Firstly, what are all your water params as this could be causing all the behaviour you are observing. We need to know temp, pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Gh and Kh via a drop test kit, not a dip test strip. This has to be your first port of call. Next, are you dechlorinating your water, if so, by what means?

    Exactly how many fish do you have, and what is your filter set up please?

    You say your pond is pear shaped so, unless you’ve actually drained it down and refilled it with a hose meter there’s a very good chance your water volume is not what you think it is, which makes the treatments you have used so far (FMG and PP) either too weak (so would not have worked and may have encouraged resistance if parasites are present) or too strong (which makes you very, very lucky esp in the case of the PP which is easy to overdose and can be lethal to young fish).

    Gazkoi is right - do please share where about you are in case someone here can help do a scrape and scope for you if your params and chlorine are deemed not to be the issue
    Last edited by Koiz; 18-10-2020 at 12:07 PM.
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  15. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Koiz's Avatar
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    You do need the right net to catch your fish! I can highly recommend the PondKraft range from Bradshaws Direct. You need the 75cm Koi Pan head (£18.99) and the 3m Telescopic Handle (29.99). This is what I have, it's lasted years and moves through the water very easily. The handle is extremely strong and so easy to store being telescopic. £48.98 for a panning kit this size is a very good price. I also use the net head detached to cover my 70cm Blue Koi Bowl when it's occupied!

    I use these Digital Aquarium Thermometers to monitor pond temps. Pop two in together to assure accuracy. They are cheap as chips and give you backups if one fails. Next day delivery from Amazon. They are not waterproof so don't leave them outside (though I have and they still work - but not a good idea!) Again, I've used these for years now and they are surprisingly accurate and I've never changed a battery yet!

    If you don't have a test kit, try the NTLabs first off as this will give you all the tests you need in one kit. OKish price off Amazon at the mo with next day delivery: NTLabs Pondlab
    Last edited by Koiz; 18-10-2020 at 12:10 PM.
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  17. #12
    Hi Koiz
    Thank you so much for your guidance and very useful info. I have a 4000LPH hozelock pump that feeds into a 6000L hozelock pressure filter that I clean regularly. I managed to keep the water parameters stable this year. I use NT labs drop tests and my numbers have been ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, pH 8, KH 5, GH 3. I have been adding regular baking soda and doing water changes to avoid pH problems. My ammonia spiked very slightly after the pp treatments but I managed this quickly and only lasted for a day or two.
    I live in Congleton, South Cheshire.
    I will definitely look into getting the thermometer and net and go from there.
    I really appreciate all your advice. I dream one day I will have a big pond but I want to make sure I know enough about how to look after the fish. It has been a steep learning curve for me with lots of mistakes but now that I joined this forum, I know I will be on the right path.

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  19. #13
    I also use a tetra pond declorinator when doing water changes. I have 3 koi 15cm, 2 7cm and 5 goldfish.

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  21. #14
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    It’s very important to understand that fish have a very limited repertoire of behaviour to show when they are sick. None of these signs actually tell you what the problem is. If anyone ever tells you ‘that looks like flukes’ from simply looking at a fish or hearing about behaviour, then you immediately know they are clueless. Never trust an aquatics outlet selling bottles of chemicals who sell you an ‘easy cure’ on that basis.

    The water test results you are quoting sound very unlikely- in a new pond you would expect to get some ammonia and nitrite initially, but when they settle down there would be a nitrate reading to prove that the filters are actually working. How big is your pond, and do you have a lot of plants in there?

    Definitely do not add any treatments without a diagnosis. You’re more likely to cause harm than good. As Gaz says you’re pretty lucky your fish are still alive given what you have thrown at them which they may well not have even needed.
    Do they all still have an intact mucus coat on them? Any sore areas?

    With temps dropping going into winter, you should try to get a diagnosis ASAP, or if you can’t you should sit on your hands.
    Last edited by Feline; 18-10-2020 at 02:37 PM.

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  23. #15
    Yes I do have a Lilly, marsh marigolds and iris so that's why my nitrate is 0. My pond is 20 years old plus. I am the one new to it lol.
    I will get a net ASAP and see if I can take some fish to my dealer to do a scrape before I treat.
    As I could not catch them I am not sure about their underside but I don't see any sores. I don't see any excess mucus either.

  24. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Don’t see any of this as a ‘telling off’ pal, it’s a complex hobby at times with a steep and initially unexpected learning curve.

    Always best to ask before action when starting out which will often lead to less errors, less expense and assist in learning faster.

    Opinions and experiences often vary too which can lead to confusion.

    When taking advice from an Aquatic store (or similar) check the person you are talking too actually has their own pond. As a retailer myself, selling through the business and keeping my own koi are two very different things...

    Cheers

    Gaz
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Ecoís, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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  26. #17
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnmm View Post
    Yes I do have a Lilly, marsh marigolds and iris so that's why my nitrate is 0. My pond is 20 years old plus. I am the one new to it lol.
    I will get a net ASAP and see if I can take some fish to my dealer to do a scrape before I treat.
    As I could not catch them I am not sure about their underside but I don't see any sores. I don't see any excess mucus either.
    Ah sorry thought you said the pond was new. So was it just these koi that were new this summer?
    Is it only the koi that are affected and not the goldfish etc.?

  27. #18
    Yes the koi is new for this year. I purchased them on 2 stages. The symptoms started with the first lot first and then the second and that's why I think it is a parasite. I find the goldfish are much more hardy than koi and had this lot since last year. They flash only rarely though.

 

 

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