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  1. #121
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    There flashing less though. It could be the food. It might take a week or so for what ever is the problem to be diluted out of the pond lol.
    It's all trial and error. Some nice fish there
    Mate.
    Fred

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  3. #122
    [QUOTE=freddyboy;343455]There flashing less though. It could be the food. It might take a week or so for what ever is the problem to be diluted out of the pond lol.
    It's all trial and error. Some nice fish there
    Mate.
    Fred

    thanks Fred, some are over 15 years old . not sure what to do with the fish thats very poorly floating about not sure if ethnising is the best way . nothing ive done has improved him

    most likely not food related im just fed up with it .

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  5. #123
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    Agree with Fred, you have some nice fish in there Mark , and looking at the vid they don't look to bad, but
    obviously you know things aren't right . Have you tried using a different brand of water testing kit to see if you are
    getting the same results ?.........Get some cheap food.....Tetra floating or something ( you can all take your head out
    of your hands now) and see what happens, and I bet you they all end up gigantic and everything will be all healed up.
    But seriously try changing the food and see..................it won't hurt.

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  7. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    Agree with Fred, you have some nice fish in there Mark , and looking at the vid they don't look to bad, but
    obviously you know things aren't right . Have you tried using a different brand of water testing kit to see if you are
    getting the same results ?.........Get some cheap food.....Tetra floating or something ( you can all take your head out
    of your hands now) and see what happens, and I bet you they all end up gigantic and everything will be all healed up.
    But seriously try changing the food and see..................it won't hurt.
    Hi Anne,
    LOL i wish they would grow gigantic, only 1 in my pond that has a shot of getting to around 80cm as he is still young, and already around 57/58cm
    gave them some raspberries from my garden , didnt get much flashing , though they were already flashing anyway, tried cuttlebrook growth food 3mm pellets , less flashing that queni koi to begin with that as feeding progressed flashing got worse and worse very similar reaction from both foods. will get some gold fish food flakes see what changes if any take place.

    Gaz koi is coming round to see if he can help find the culprit tomorrow morning , very nice of him . i will feel a bit embarrassed as pond not finished , roof half down and part of new roof up and garden bit messy with pond building being worked on and front of the building stripped an stuff everywhere. lol

    ive got ntlabs and api both give me same reading.

    yer they aint that bad but they are gradually getting worse

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  9. #125
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    That's really good news, Nice one Mr Gazkoi.... And I bet The only thing he will be interested in is the welfare of
    the Koi and your sanity.........not what's going on in the garden, it all takes time and Rome wasn't built in a day .
    Good luck for tomorrow..........

















    PS Gazkoi............you can pm me and let me know the state of the place.................Fanks

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  11. #126
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Thats hilarious (again) anne

    Hopefully tomorrow morning can reveal something or at the very least as RS previously posted give sanity that nothing detectable is being missed.

    Cheers

    Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    That's really good news, Nice one Mr Gazkoi.... And I bet The only thing he will be interested in is the welfare of
    the Koi and your sanity.........not what's going on in the garden, it all takes time and Rome wasn't built in a day

    Good luck for tomorrow..........

















    PS Gazkoi............you can pm me and let me know the state of the place.................Fanks
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  13. #127
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    That's really good news, Nice one Mr Gazkoi.... And I bet The only thing he will be interested in is the welfare of
    the Koi and your sanity.........not what's going on in the garden, it all takes time and Rome wasn't built in a day .
    Good luck for tomorrow..........

















    PS Gazkoi............you can pm me and let me know the state of the place.................Fanks
    Haha Brill Need help   with finding parasitesNeed help   with finding parasitesNeed help   with finding parasites

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  15. #128
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Nice one gaz. Good on yeah mate. Great
    Gesture
    Fred

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  17. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    Thats hilarious (again) anne

    Hopefully tomorrow morning can reveal something or at the very least as RS previously posted give sanity that nothing detectable is being missed.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Thank you Gaz for visiting me today , such a shame nothing could be found but you gave some great advice
    and thank you for the antibiotic injections for my poorly fish , he has perked up little more since

    to update everyone
    something in the water is causing the fish stress , possible chemical leeching from IPC container/ G4 Pond paint failing or PH swings that maybe the cause.

    all i can do is keep trying to maintain good water parameters , lining the IPC container with a pond liner to then rule it out as a potential cause and look at the pond itself.
    I do have enough g4 paint to give it another coat , after a sand down and inspection for cracks , seal with PU18 if any are found/put a liner in or fiberglass if i have the money .

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  19. #130
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Not read all of yesterday's and today's posts yet but massive respect to Gaz for visiting.

    If you are suspecting something leeching into the water then ring up LFH and buy some pond detox formula.

    It is a lot cheaper buying directly from them by phone.

    And if you suspect it's snake oil, have a read of this before buying:

    https://www.pond-life.me.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4010

    I am using it at the moment as part of my ongoing (3 year) process of elimination of a long standing water issue.



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  21. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Not read all of yesterday's and today's posts yet but massive respect to Gaz for visiting.

    If you are suspecting something leeching into the water then ring up LFH and buy some pond detox formula.

    It is a lot cheaper buying directly from them by phone.

    And if you suspect it's snake oil, have a read of this before buying:

    https://www.pond-life.me.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4010

    I am using it at the moment as part of my ongoing (3 year) process of elimination of a long standing water issue.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    just read that thanks mate ,

    how much did it cost you for Pond Detox Formula (PDF)
    300gms 1 Kg & 2Kg



    this is a short term treatment to help while i sort the underlying issues am i correct?

    can i use this along with aqua source balance vitalize ?

    thanks
    mark

  22. #132
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markini5 View Post
    just read that thanks mate ,

    how much did it cost you for Pond Detox Formula (PDF)
    300gms 1 Kg & 2Kg



    this is a short term treatment to help while i sort the underlying issues am i correct?

    can i use this along with aqua source balance vitalize ?

    thanks
    mark
    It was £59 including next day delivery from LFH for 2kg whereas it's around £73 everywhere else.

    It is completely harmless to everything and cannot be overdosed but if you have other chemicals in the water it may remove them, or be wasted trying to remove them instead of the actual toxins you want it to remove so I would guess it is best used on its own and without salt in the water.

    Standard dose is 2 tablespoons per 1000 gallons weekly but you have to work out for yourself if you need more than that depending on whether things start improving. You may want to dose daily for the first few days and if you notice an improvement go down to once a week and see if the improvement remains, then maybe stop using it to see if the problem comes back.

    What you are doing is establishing confirmation as to whether something is leaching into the water. If it makes no difference whatsoever then you can assume your problem isn't something leaching, but if the symptoms suddenly disappear then you have confirmation that something is leaching and your next steps are to either keep using it long term or to use a process of elimination to establish what is leaching.

    So all you're doing is getting confirmation as to whether your problem is to do with the water or not.

    Looking at the video you posted your koi look nice and healthy in the main but there's 2 in particular that are showing something not being right.

    Are your Koi still spitting food and is it just one of them or multiple?

    Have you been able to hold the pH stable?


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  24. #133
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Most looked healthy when I was there with the exception of one or two. One of two of the collection are older koi too and some had come from other pond which will always create a mystery over their mixing history etc...

    Most were swimming relatively happily, Fins were all good and only one had excessive mucus - the sickest looking one which was given an antibiotic - with 4 more left for the next 4 days.

    Undeniably there is flashing off the drain and the PH swings could be the cause. KH was good following a regime of adding bi-carb. What is causing the PH to swing is the question for me as I am pretty sure the koi were clean yesterday (as was Mark).

    Reading back over this post there has been a lot of treatments used in a relatively short period to tackle various parasites which could be secondary to PH stress???

    Pond is well constructed and I just question whether the G4 paint used is allowing the concrete to leech into the pond. This is very difficult to assess.

    I know little about G4 TBH, so it may be Mark worth exploring this more with other members who have used this and/or trying any technical help like that may exist. Having done some FG work previously getting chemicals to react how you want them too can be difficult and perhaps not obvious if they have not.

    The other line of inquiry for me would be the IBC - sold as having only contained food stuff but most seem to say that.... again proving / eradicating is difficult.

    Yesterday brought more questions than answers for me, however at least Mark can be assured as best we checked yesterday there are no parasites currently and treatments can be relaxed for a while allowing the koi some recovery time.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  26. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    It was £59 including next day delivery from LFH for 2kg whereas it's around £73 everywhere else.

    It is completely harmless to everything and cannot be overdosed but if you have other chemicals in the water it may remove them, or be wasted trying to remove them instead of the actual toxins you want it to remove so I would guess it is best used on its own and without salt in the water.

    Standard dose is 2 tablespoons per 1000 gallons weekly but you have to work out for yourself if you need more than that depending on whether things start improving. You may want to dose daily for the first few days and if you notice an improvement go down to once a week and see if the improvement remains, then maybe stop using it to see if the problem comes back.

    What you are doing is establishing confirmation as to whether something is leaching into the water. If it makes no difference whatsoever then you can assume your problem isn't something leaching, but if the symptoms suddenly disappear then you have confirmation that something is leaching and your next steps are to either keep using it long term or to use a process of elimination to establish what is leaching.

    So all you're doing is getting confirmation as to whether your problem is to do with the water or not.

    Looking at the video you posted your koi look nice and healthy in the main but there's 2 in particular that are showing something not being right.

    Are your Koi still spitting food and is it just one of them or multiple?

    Have you been able to hold the pH stable?


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    2 were spiting food yesterday afternoon .

    from my API test the PH appears stable though something more accurate such as a digital reader might be the best way to go

    Now the dilemma, Gaz recommended keeping the pond salted at a higher dose than currently at 0.3

    PDF will require loads of water dumps to rid the pond of salt. their isnt any chemicals currently in the pond.

    Wonder what Gaz's opinion is now that PDF Has been mentioned , something ive never heard of , but sounds like a life saver from what you said, stopping the koi from developing ulcers caused by rubbing.

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  28. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    Most looked healthy when I was there with the exception of one or two. One of two of the collection are older koi too and some had come from other pond which will always create a mystery over their mixing history etc...

    Most were swimming relatively happily, Fins were all good and only one had excessive mucus - the sickest looking one which was given an antibiotic - with 4 more left for the next 4 days.

    Undeniably there is flashing off the drain and the PH swings could be the cause. KH was good following a regime of adding bi-carb. What is causing the PH to swing is the question for me as I am pretty sure the koi were clean yesterday (as was Mark).

    Reading back over this post there has been a lot of treatments used in a relatively short period to tackle various parasites which could be secondary to PH stress???

    Pond is well constructed and I just question whether the G4 paint used is allowing the concrete to leech into the pond. This is very difficult to assess.

    I know little about G4 TBH, so it may be Mark worth exploring this more with other members who have used this and/or trying any technical help like that may exist. Having done some FG work previously getting chemicals to react how you want them too can be difficult and perhaps not obvious if they have not.

    The other line of inquiry for me would be the IBC - sold as having only contained food stuff but most seem to say that.... again proving / eradicating is difficult.

    Yesterday brought more questions than answers for me, however at least Mark can be assured as best we checked yesterday there are no parasites currently and treatments can be relaxed for a while allowing the koi some recovery time.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Manky has got back to me regarding IPC container, he said as long as its been used for food use it should be fine but cant 100% rule out leeching and if seller telling the truth or not. a liner would rule of the bio chamber as a cause if done.
    so thats on the list of things to buy lol
    do you sell any pond liners 3mx3m ?

    whats you view on what Gaz mentioned regarding PDF ?

  29. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    Most looked healthy when I was there with the exception of one or two. One of two of the collection are older koi too and some had come from other pond which will always create a mystery over their mixing history etc...

    Most were swimming relatively happily, Fins were all good and only one had excessive mucus - the sickest looking one which was given an antibiotic - with 4 more left for the next 4 days.

    Undeniably there is flashing off the drain and the PH swings could be the cause. KH was good following a regime of adding bi-carb. What is causing the PH to swing is the question for me as I am pretty sure the koi were clean yesterday (as was Mark).

    Reading back over this post there has been a lot of treatments used in a relatively short period to tackle various parasites which could be secondary to PH stress???

    Pond is well constructed and I just question whether the G4 paint used is allowing the concrete to leech into the pond. This is very difficult to assess.

    I know little about G4 TBH, so it may be Mark worth exploring this more with other members who have used this and/or trying any technical help like that may exist. Having done some FG work previously getting chemicals to react how you want them too can be difficult and perhaps not obvious if they have not.

    The other line of inquiry for me would be the IBC - sold as having only contained food stuff but most seem to say that.... again proving / eradicating is difficult.

    Yesterday brought more questions than answers for me, however at least Mark can be assured as best we checked yesterday there are no parasites currently and treatments can be relaxed for a while allowing the koi some recovery time.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    the sickest koi that as injected has developed a bulge and raised scaled where he was injected yesterday, going more tail up, but still feeding though ive switched to sinking nisikoi pellets which he prefers to eat and is eating alot which is good to see.
    ive given him his injection on his other side , might give him a salt dip if he gets any worse.

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  31. #137
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi Mark,

    PDF is not something I have experience with TBH so probably best taking the advice from the manufacturer or someone on here who has experience of the product mate.

    I don’t recall the salt comment, but it was early salt will of course chill then out a little, however how this will react / compliment the PDF I could not say mate.

    Not sure why the injection site has raised as it was ok shortly after and no scale was lost during the injection. Keep an eye on it for infection when you can’t him for each treatment and give it some antibacterial spray if needed.

    As said yesterday, unfortunately that one is very sick and may not pull through - however I rarely give up on them and have had some of my own pull round from what appeared to be certain death...

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  33. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    Hi Mark,

    PDF is not something I have experience with TBH so probably best taking the advice from the manufacturer or someone on here who has experience of the product mate.

    I don’t recall the salt comment, but it was early salt will of course chill then out a little, however how this will react / compliment the PDF I could not say mate.

    Not sure why the injection site has raised as it was ok shortly after and no scale was lost during the injection. Keep an eye on it for infection when you can’t him for each treatment and give it some antibacterial spray if needed.

    As said yesterday, unfortunately that one is very sick and may not pull through - however I rarely give up on them and have had some of my own pull round from what appeared to be certain death...

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hi Gaz, was after you measured salt content, said ideally could be raised and how it helps prevent other problems, maybe i got my wires crossed and took that as a recommendation to continue salting

    Its ok , i accept that he might not make it , his body has bloated on that side and scales lifted yer he has his scales still, maybe the stress just triggered a reaction, he's always the first to become poorly but at least we have tried to help him .
    Yep ive got a med kit should he need extra work.

    thanks
    Mark

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  35. #139
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markini5 View Post
    2 were spiting food yesterday afternoon .

    from my API test the PH appears stable though something more accurate such as a digital reader might be the best way to go

    Now the dilemma, Gaz recommended keeping the pond salted at a higher dose than currently at 0.3

    PDF will require loads of water dumps to rid the pond of salt. their isnt any chemicals currently in the pond.

    Wonder what Gaz's opinion is now that PDF Has been mentioned , something ive never heard of , but sounds like a life saver from what you said, stopping the koi from developing ulcers caused by rubbing.
    I had same dilemma mate.

    Pond was salted (long story as to why, which I won't go into here), then Paula suggested the PDF, and it was her that said remove the salt first so the PDF isn't just trying to counteract the salt.

    Seeing as 0.3% salt wasn't making any improvements in my situation rather then get rid of it straight away what I did was increase the salt to 0.6% for 1.5 weeks. The koi actually seemed happier (plants didn't and filter got knocked back for a day) but I don't think it fixed the problem I was trying to resolve, part of which did include koi spitting food out, and they did stop spitting the morning after salt had been increased to 0.6% but I believe that was coincidence as the spitting is an intermittent problem and does stop for periods of time.

    After 1.5 weeks i did 65% water change followed a few days later by a 35% water change and then a few days of trickle in/out to further reduce the remaining salt (which I now estimate to be around 0.15%).

    In my case Paula suggested the food spitting was very unlikely to be a gill problem (my diagnosis) but more likely to be caused by something leaching hence my current use of PDF.

    Here's something for you to try, feed the koi (by hand if possible) mussels and see if they spit those out, I bet they don't!

    If they don't then try soaking the pellets first to soften them and see if they still get spat out. Would be interested to see your findings.




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    Last edited by RS2OOO; 26-07-2020 at 06:39 PM.

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  37. #140
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I really don't want to go into too much detail about my pond's long term issues because what I've been experiencing is something extremely unusual which I've been trying to resolve since the very first Koi I added to the pond and because of how unlikely this would be for 2 people to have the same problem I don't want to plant a seed in your mind that your problem could be the same..... unless it is the same!

    All I can say is once my Koi are moved to a different environment the problem goes away, so for me it is probably a pond issue and not a Koi issue, hence all the above talk about PDF.

    However, I wanted you to see these videos in case they are similar to the behaviour you are seeing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FUc55xxYo




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NKBN94QtG0





    And just to prove how weird this problem is..... Same Koi 10 minutes later when the mealworms go in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SgsScNBc

    Last edited by RS2OOO; 26-07-2020 at 06:56 PM.

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