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Thread: Fish rubing for unknown reasons
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08-04-2020, 11:30 AM #21
Thanks Steve, I dug my own grave to be blunt by not being happy with my filters since I built the pond in oct 2018 and then changing 3 times since then so ive had prolonged new pond syndrome causing no ends of illnesses
make this be a lesson to others to avoid
thankfully my ideal filtration that suits my pond and requirements is now matured and gone OTT on quantity of media and various brands and shapes which seem to do a fair better job than just K1 on its own.
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08-04-2020, 11:56 AM #22
What have you opted for now out of interest?
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08-04-2020, 12:23 PM #23
New pond syndrome is one of the biggest killers in my opinion. And cause of illness. Unless you get the virus s in your pond.
That's why I always try to help people with a new pond. Same as coming out of winter
If not heated. It's like having NPS.
That's why I try to get across to people on
Aeromonas ally. Feed sparingly keep testing parameters. Build filters back to maturity slowly.
Been there got the t shirt. And lost fish through it
Fred
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08-04-2020, 01:43 PM #24
DIY drum filter ipc 1000 litre bio diy with approx. 300 litres of mixed floating media (K1/K1 MICRO HEL X 13) With enough space for another 200 litres if needed later down the line, 2 pumps super fish eco plus rc 15000 /10000 one running direct to pond other via EB50 BEAD filter then through 3kw elecro digital heater and added a second air pump EA airtech 95 stiring the media and 75 model for spindrifter bottom drain air dome and a second ceramic 10" disc air stone in the pond with flow split between them make viewing the fish that more pleasurable would prefer them off but the bottom of pond would quickly build up with debris
I will be making a bakki shower/bakki river soon and then start saving for Thermotec 12 heat pump pond heater .
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08-04-2020, 01:52 PM #25
Ive worn that T-shirt out mate, been 18 months of very little enjoyment since first built spent £100's in treatments but learning to save money by making my own FMG with NT LABS products buying PP crystals through ebay
after what I went through I wont have a pond without a heater all my problems have been through winters and new pond syndrome
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08-04-2020, 02:06 PM #26
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08-04-2020, 09:10 PM #27
ive just dosed the pond with FMG again covers most of the parasites most likely causing this and see how it pans out lucky I brought 2 1/2 litres of each and mixed myself this koi keeping is rinsing me
im just thinking maybe the parasites are hatchings or eggs or somert as to eye I cant find anything, spent 3 hours today under the micro scope checked 4 more koi and still found naff all , yet rubbing is getting worse and more are now doing it...
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09-04-2020, 06:21 AM #28
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09-04-2020, 03:52 PM #29
tops of pond wall possible when the drum gets caked the bio chamber drops forcing the pond to sometimes overflow the wall
I still haven't finished the coping has scaffold boards as a short term solution plan on finishing it with grey slate floor tiles but might have a raise the pond walls by a few inches and level it better than is as the back of the pond wall is lower than the front by 2 inches.
1 day in from treating , no rubbing witnessed yet my shiro koi is twitching one of his pec fins might need to scrape him see how he goes
treatments are difficult to manage I have to turn my main pump off, reduce drum cleaning to every few hours and stop auto water top ups to prevent treatment dilution . and now bottom of pond is full of fish waste.
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13-04-2020, 09:48 AM #30
Just to share my experience with using a scope, when I previously suspected I had parasites (back in November 2019) I brought a scope and scraped 5 fish. I also spent hours scanning slides and found nothing.
I believe now that this was due to me taking too long setting it up and that the slide dried up fast under the light. Then crushing the parasites.
My justification for this is that in my last scraps I did last week I had everything prepared and set up. Laptop connected, slide and cover slip ready and a pipette with water. Scraped the fish, added the mucus to the slide. Chopped it up to spread it out 2 drops of water and then added the cover slip. Scanned the slide at 40x and found flukes a number of flukes all in what was likely 2 minuets.
I wrote the position of each parasite (at this point they were actively moving)
After I was happy I had scanned the slide (5 minuets) I went back to the positions I could still see them but they were no longer moving and were a lot harder to see (could be missed if I did not know they were there)
Later on, I don’t know what time had passed I went back and they were not visible.
Same happened on both the fish I scraped.
Im not sure if others had experienced this but I am just sharing my fist hand advice and findings in the hope it will help others.
Shout out to [mention]Gazkoi [/mention]who provides me above advise for preparing the slide
Makes the investment in the scope worthwhile and now I feel confident in my ability to identify parasites. Still some work to do on mastering handling the fish while trying to scrape.
I have now brought some koi sedate to ensure I can do a good scrape without stressing the fish and causing potential damage.
[mention]Gazkoi [/mention] also supplied this and at £10 it’s a no brainier imo
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13-04-2020, 01:08 PM #31
good info shared Mike, thanks for this, i reckon a lot of us fall foul of this as its not something we do very much and we faff around all fingers and thumbs trying not to hurt the fish and get the mucus its quite daunting for those doing it for the first few times, i know it got me in a state and your right by the time you look at the slide its even dried up or the parasite has got squashed.....
2200 gallons,infinity window,
Evolve 4k combi,spindrifter,
2x20k pumps, BD,Skimmer,
Shower, ASHP
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markini5 Thanked / Liked this Post
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13-04-2020, 02:34 PM #32
Every time i read the title from this thread, i think to myself, that's just perverse "fish rubbing unknown reasons"
4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
2 x 18,000 lh pumps
Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
Idealseal MS290
My Pond Build
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13-04-2020, 02:35 PM #33Freddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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RoyLittle0 Thanked / Liked this Post
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13-04-2020, 03:58 PM #34
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Ajm, RoyLittle0 Thanked / Liked this Post
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13-04-2020, 05:58 PM #35
If you bowl the koi it’s a lot easier than scrapping in the net, though I do do this for some of my koi as they are quite calm.
the other thing is if there are two of you it’s so easy, one to hold and one to do the scrap.
bigger koi are often easier to scrap than koi under two years.
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13-04-2020, 06:00 PM #36
Found spinning them making them dizzy helps to do what's needed
Sent from my SM-G973F using TapatalkFreddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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13-04-2020, 06:04 PM #37
Yes just get the biggest wooden spoon and stir until the water is moving around really fast and drop your koi in
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13-04-2020, 06:06 PM #384600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
2 x 18,000 lh pumps
Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
Idealseal MS290
My Pond Build
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13-04-2020, 06:06 PM #39
No that's hard work you use a plaster paddle with a drill
Sent from my SM-G973F using TapatalkFreddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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13-04-2020, 06:09 PM #40
Ha that’s funny I can just picture that, make your you wear some grippy glows to seize the koi to do the scrap lol
The Daily pond temp thread
Still at around 17C, know what you mean about getting the covers off though :D it will be really...