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Thread: Are my fish dead or just sulking
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06-02-2020, 07:15 PM #1
Are my fish dead or just sulking
See my previous thread re: low Kh levels. Well I did the calculations, got the Soda Bicarb and treated the pond BUT.....stupidly as new to this, I put it all in over 2 days without testing in between. Monday and Tuesday
The Kh levels have risen from 3 to 13 on Wednesday and I panicked and drained about 10% of the pond (it was late and dark) and refilled with water from tap which is Kh 3. The level today was Kh12 so hoping to reduce the levels further I have drained it again by about 20% and refilled with tap water planning to retest tomorrow. I am trying not to swing it too far back too fast as the fish must be really stressed by now. Ph is 8.
One Koi has surfaced but is RIP and it was looking a bit poorly prior to all this so I put it down to increased stress. However I have not seen any other fish since the stupid error at the beginning of the week
Are the fish dead and on the bottom? I expect dead fish to float to the top as any others that have died did that. The pessimist in me thinks its just a matter of time before they all float to the top dead.
Can they just be sulking around the bottom and will come back up once the levels equalise? Previous to all this they were active and feeding about twice a week.
Have I killed them all with this stupidity? Lesson well and truly learned.
Last edited by Selina127; 06-02-2020 at 07:18 PM.
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06-02-2020, 07:52 PM #2
Are my fish dead or just sulking
I had a dead fish today he was on the bottom.. my death is likely to damage that occurred with my new pond syndrome
I feel you have likely raised the KH way too fast. Did you use de chlorinated water?
What was the ph fluctuation in the 2 days?
How much SB did you add?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Mikeh83; 06-02-2020 at 07:56 PM.
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06-02-2020, 08:01 PM #3
Hi Selina, ok you are holding your hands up and made a mistake we all have done it.
To answer your last question is if you have killed them all,don't know.
Your tap is kh 3 which is fine, so what I would do is tricle in if you have an overflow,are you dechlorinating the water ?
You need to and sodium thiosulphate is the cheap one to use.
So a good tricle in is the way to go in my opinion.
Any more advice please ask Selina.John
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06-02-2020, 08:09 PM #4
Its a 30,000 litre outdoor pond, I have been using the hose pipe to refill it straight from the tap. it was running for 4 hours today and the pond isn't full yet. Ph hasn't changed.
I have Tetra Aqua Safe to use once its full again, probably tomorrow. Not heard about Sodium Thiosulphate before.
Not de-chlorinated the water but the pond was OK using aqua safe last time I drained it to clean it.
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06-02-2020, 08:12 PM #5
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06-02-2020, 09:12 PM #6
Dont know if koipen is different but I use manky sanke page he is amazing at water science
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Sent from my SM-G973F using TapatalkFreddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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07-02-2020, 10:52 AM #7
3 to 13 seems a big increase in a short space of time, What calculation did you use exactly? what is your length width and depth of your pond? can you not see the bottom of your pond to view your fish ? How many fish do you have and how old is your pond? Some info would be helpful, Steve
Last edited by smartin; 07-02-2020 at 10:54 AM.
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07-02-2020, 11:01 AM #8
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07-02-2020, 05:12 PM #9
https://www.swelluk.com/pond-volume-calculator.html here's where I calculated the pond volume = 30,000 litres (6mx4mx1.25m).
I can't see the bottom due to green water - its always varying hues of green.
There are about 7 6in Koi, 3 shebunkin, and around 20 goldfish. No idea how old the pond is as we moved here in April 2019, but we drained it by 80% last year to clean it out. I have never had a pond or fish before.
Having looked again I have dosed for 30,000 gallons not 30,000 litres so MASSIVELY overdosed the pond.
Water test today is: Kh 11 and PH steady at 8. Temp 5 degrees. All other water tests are at zero so no ammonia or nitrate problems.
I have added Tetra Aqua safe today as I am filling it with tap water via the hosepipe.
Still not seen any fish.
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07-02-2020, 06:00 PM #10
Selina,
Adding sodium bicarbonate won't lower the pH, it will raise it but raising the KH and, therefore, raising the pH will make any ammonia more toxic. Except in the case of a pH crash when you must raise the pH to 7.0 as quickly as possible but no higher for a couple of days, the maximum recommended rate of change is one degree KH per day or 0.2 pH per day (I explain all this on the link below).
Raising the KH or pH more quickly than that won't harm your koi but they will be stressed for a few days while they adjust to the new values as is explained in the article. Koi aren't worried by the value of KH unless it got massively high and took the pH way above 8.5 so don't worry, you haven't done them any harm except to P them off.
The KH will come down slowly due to action in your biofilter so don't try to lower it with water changes, let it fall of its own accord until it's in the range 5°KH to 7°KH.
When you say that all the other readings are zero, you only mentioned ammonia and nitrate so does that include the nitrite?
This link to my article on how to safely recover from a pH crash also gives suitable information about raising the KH or pH in other cases where they are low but the pH hasn't actually crashed.
http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/htm l/questions_answered.html#pHcrash
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07-02-2020, 09:29 PM #11
Are my fish dead or just sulking
There we go... no expert, I got it the wrong way
SB can be used as a buffer to lower pH if it’s above 8.4 though but will not lower below this.. I think sorry for miss advice.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Mikeh83; 07-02-2020 at 10:10 PM.
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07-02-2020, 09:56 PM #12
There you go Manky Sanke to the rescue, just have a good read on what he has said and his links, it will help you...… yes 30k gallons and not litres would explain why it was such a sharp rise in such a short space of time anyhow mate hopefully the rest of your fish will be ok and things will settle down, you say your water is always greenish ? do you have a lot of natural plants and overhead trees and bushes nearby ?? are you not filtering in any way?
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07-02-2020, 09:57 PM #13
Hi Manky and thank you for the advice. I have read the article and I am reassured I have made a mistake but probably not a fatal one yet. Stupid to not notice calculator was gallons and not litres.
Yes the nitrite level is zero. The Ph only rose from 7.5 to 8 and has remained at 8 all this week. Generally the readings are stable except for a regular slow reduction in KH - I didn't know th ebio filter will reduce it so I need to keep my eye on that more often.
Not out of the woods yet but at least I can see daylight now you have put my mind at rest so thank you for that.
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07-02-2020, 10:05 PM #14
Green water - there are no overhead plants or trees and its in full sun most of the day when its not cloudy or raining!
Some floating plants but they are dormant now, 3 water lily in summer but nothing at the moment.
Running 2 seperate filters and a waterfall, run them off twice a week to keep them clean. I washed the foams out in summer with pond water. 3 air bricks in the pond and 2 in the filter chamber. 3 UV lights.
We used Algo-Rem over the summer when it got really bad but it didn't really help despite skimming off LOADS of algea after using it. I know we need lots of plants but in winter what are the options?
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07-02-2020, 10:16 PM #15Freddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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07-02-2020, 10:21 PM #16
This is the condition of the pond last September, cloudy and greenish. Sorry not a great picture but you get the idea.
Last edited by Selina127; 07-02-2020 at 10:36 PM.
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07-02-2020, 10:33 PM #17
I think they are all 75 watt UV and I have no idea on turn over as I don't know much about it or how to calculate it so can't answer that one. The waterfall runs 24 hrs.
Remember I am a new to this and have heard about 'flow rates' but no idea why they are important or how to regulate it.
Predicting really bad weather this weekend and my fish need a rest so I am not going to be adjusting anything for a few weeks.
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07-02-2020, 10:35 PM #18
I think they are all 75 watt UV and I have no idea on turn over as I don't know much about it or how to calculate it so can't answer that one. The waterfall runs 24 hrs.<br>Remember I am a new to this and have heard about 'flow rates' but no idea why they are important or how to regulate it. <br>Predicting really bad weather this weekend and my fish need a rest so I am not going to be adjusting anything for a few weeks. <br><br><br>
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07-02-2020, 10:49 PM #19
Am still learning belive me . Do you know what size pumps you have running ? How far they are pumping to filters/pond return . And height they are pumping ie how high is the waterfall
Sent from my SM-G973F using TapatalkFreddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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08-02-2020, 08:22 AM #20
Are my fish dead or just sulking
Just a thought.. you mentioned that you inherited the pond back in April 2019. Have you changed the UV bulbs?
I know that I was not aware they have a effective life of around 6 months. Even if the bulb is lit this does not mean it is doing the job is is designed for and likely the cause of the green water.
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Running heater at low temp?
Covering the pond with polycarb should be enough to stop water temps dipping below 6C for the most...