Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Powys
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks / Likes
    1703

    Serious Jaw Injury – A Very Hard Lesson (WARNING: Distressing Photos)

    This is a really hard post to write but I feel I should as there are lessons to be learned and shared.

    After months of parasite woes, I thought I was finally out of the woods when I came out Tuesday morning to find my Yamabuki had a really terrible injury below his jaw. I took some photos through the window and emailed them to Paula Reynolds at Lincs Fish Health (eternal thanks to Freddyboy for this referral because she is wonderful), and Simon Grundy of Japan Koi Import (an immensely likeable chap, but more importantly a Zoologist with a wealth of knowledge and experience with Koi et al). Armed with their responses, I sedated to investigate further. I removed the hanging flesh, dried the wound and treated twice with Kusuri Anti-Bac (alcohol based iodine that apparently penetrates tissues more effectively so is not washed off when returning to the pond). I’m not ashamed to say I did all this with blurred vision as I was crying at the extent of the injury I discovered.

    Paula’s response to the subsequent photos was that whilst it may be possible for this to heal, the chances of recovery in my unheated pond in winter were limited. Antibiotics may also be necessary, but again – they are no use in low water temps. To set up a hospital tank now would take many weeks, and require large daily water changes in the meantime, which is just not practical in my situation. Simon’s response was that in my pond there was a 10% chance of survival, but in a heated quarantine set up that could be 40-50%. When he offered for me to bring my fish over to him – I cried all over again!

    So, that’s where he is right now. I drove Yama over to JKI yesterday morning which is only some 30 mins away, but felt like the longest journey ever as I was trying so hard not to stress my fish any more than he was already. We have some seriously bumpy roads in the Fens – and I made a good few enemies from fellow drivers en-route! (Note to self: put banner in back window saying “transporting fish – driving slowly – please pass” next time!).

    He’s now in a heated tank with two buddies for company, receiving some ‘Simon magic’ and I’ll keep you posted on how things progress.

    This isn’t a ‘valuable’ koi, but he was my brothers and I’ve had him for 5 years, so he’s about 10 years old. I adore him as much as all my fish. Which is why I feel so awful about how this injury occurred. The only explanation I can come up with, after going through the pond with a fine toothed comb, is that he must have impaled himself on the sharp edge of a cut cable tie that was holding one of my pond lights in place, and as he tried to free himself he did all this horrific damage. I’m a big fan of cable ties (and duct tape for that matter – not sure what that says about me!), and my pond lights are attached to a length of black square downpipe so that the cables run through the pipe and the lights sit on top. This is then lowered down onto the shelf and sits against the front wall so the lights are angled up throughout the pond. I’m able to pull it up to clean and it keeps everything very neat. It’s been like this for two years with no issues, and works really well. However, for some reason it was not sitting flush against the wall as usual so there was a gap in which the fish could forage and the cut edge of a 3mm wide cable tie, only about 10mm in length, was sticking out the back and I think that is what he caught himself on. I feel so stupid for not thinking to wrap the cut ties with tape. Needless to say I have redesigned my light bar using electrical tape so there is absolutely no danger from it now, but this was a very hard lesson to learn, and my poor koi has paid the price.

    I tell this story as a warning and a reminder to check, check and check again for the smallest of hazards in our ponds.

    I hope that no one will berate me for my oversight as I honestly don’t need to feel worse than I do already but if this helps anyone who may have used cable ties in their pond to go check just how safe they are, then it was worth sharing.
    Thanks, Wendy

    Screenshot_2019-10-29-10-08-30.jpgScreenshot_2019-10-29-10-08-39.jpgScreenshot_2019-10-29-10-09-25.jpgScreenshot_2019-10-29-14-33-11.jpgScreenshot_2019-10-29-14-39-38.jpgScreenshot_2019-10-29-14-40-10.jpg


    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  2. Thanks john1, Ajm, Solvent Cement, MustBeSomethingInTheWater, smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Posts
    874
    Thanks / Likes
    1157
    Dont beat yourself up bud.Every day is a learning day.Weve all made mistakes.Big of you to admit yours

  4. #3
    I'll start with a cliche....Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. Can't see many coming your way. It's impossible to consider and prevent every possible threat which might present itself over the lifetime of a koi.

    Hey, i reckon you are brilliant for posting this on here. It could save other fish even if yours doesn't pull through. Which he now has a better chance of doing, thanks to your dilligence.

    I have also learned from your post. I had no idea that antibiotics only worked at certain temperatures.

    Several methods of "dealing with" cable ties....

    1 The easiest being, don't trim the end. Have it angled either up out of the water or where it will cause least risk of injury.

    2 Wrap the cut end in old liner or better still some self amalgamating pipe tape.

    3 This only works if the thing isnt already in situ.... Melt the trimmed cable tie with a heat gun until it's no longer sharp.

    Please though, NEVER, EVER, EVER use a fine tooth comb to go over a pond. You risk puncturing the liner Not to mention how it'll look next time you comb your hair. Think of the tugs.

    Would you keep us updated please?

  5. Thanks john1, RS2OOO, Ajm, MustBeSomethingInTheWater, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  6. #4
    Can anyone see my post in this thread. I cannot. I foolishly left a 20 minute gap in the middle of typing it. I forgot that distraction is forbidden on this forum.

  7. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Posts
    874
    Thanks / Likes
    1157
    Yes its visible

  9. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  10. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,700
    Thanks / Likes
    15243
    Wendy, I think you did very very well. As that looks a nasty wound.

    Massive thanks to Simon Grundy of Japan koi import in taking your koi in to heal properly,dont think I know of them but I think they need to be known.

    These things happen Wendy and I have had a few,let us know how he gets on.
    John

  11. Thanks RS2OOO, Ajm, freddyboy, smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  12. #7
    Junior Member Rank = Fry PascalMal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1
    Thanks / Likes
    0

    View First Unread

    For the past couple of weeks the View First Unread button at the top of each thread has not been working for me. Anyone else having that problem?

  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Nice one on posting wendy. And as said. Don t beat yourself up.
    Good on the fellow to help look after your fish.
    Cable ties. What I do. Is cut as short as possible. And put sealent. Where I have cut it. If in the pond. Just a tip for you. It gets rid of sharpness on the cut tie.
    Fingers crossed for your fish. In recovering
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  14. Thanks Ajm, john1, MustBeSomethingInTheWater, smartin, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Very nice of Simon to help, what a great guy!

    Fingers crossed it comes right- looks like its so far not affected the cartilage and bone mouth structures too much so there has to be at least a chance of recovery.

    There is one rule of koi- if they can find a new and silly way to hurt themselves they always will.
    I have a kohaku with a scar in the beni on its head from where it tried to climb into a floating skimmer in my old pond after some for that had gone in there. They are experts at self harm!

    If I've ever needed to secure anything in the pond I cut off a spare strip of pond liner and tie it around with a knot as its soft. I wouldn't personally use amalgamating tape or similar as there are some toxic chemicals in them (all be it at a low level for the volume of water, but still).

  16. Thanks freddyboy, sephuk, MustBeSomethingInTheWater, smartin, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #10
    with a bit of luck and heat it will be ok, i had a similar issue at the beginning of the year where i took 1/2 the polly carb off of the grow on which is 2 sheets and in a feeding frenzy a kohaku went nuts and jumped in to the edge of the cover scalping its self down to bone, in that case i just left alone, the tank was at 22c and it healed really fast considering there was a 50p size chunk of its head missing and it surprised me how thick the skin on the head actually is! yours will need a bit more care as the wound is on a part of the fish that has movement but fingers crossed for you mate

  18. Thanks Ajm, john1, freddyboy, RS2OOO, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Powys
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks / Likes
    1703

    Smile

    Hi Everyone, I’m delighted to write a post that I think will put a smile on everyone’s face - and in the face of this pandemic, I think we could all do with that

    After 4 months with Japan Koi Import, my Yamabuki has made a complete recovery and she is now back home ... and yes he turned out to be a she!

    I’ve attached photos of her healing process at 2 Weeks, 4 Weeks and 3 Months, and then one of her finally home with her nine buddies. JKI kept her for me till Spring when my temps were up and then acclimatised her so she was ready to go back into my unheated pond. As soon as she was released, she was shoaling with the largest of my koi that she's grown up with for 9 years and they’ve been inseparable since. I know fish are not supposed to have long term memories but when you see this sort of thing it's hard not to believe that's wrong.

    Bobby at JKI took over her care at Christmas and I can’t thank him and Mark, JKI’s owner, enough for their help and support. A combination of some antibiotics, heat and Aqua Source Vitalize and Enzyme resulted in this complete recovery. You honestly cannot see that the damage was there at all. Quite Miraculous
    Attached Images Attached Images
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  20. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy, samp09, smartin, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Powys
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks / Likes
    1703
    john1 mentioned that Japan Koi Import "need to be known" so I hope you won’t mind if I take this chance to do just that…

    I came across JKI in June last year when I was hunting for a local stockist that sold Potassium Permanganate. They are based in Needingworth, Huntingdon and after what felt like a magical mystery tour down the country road that leads to JKI, I was blown away by what I found.

    JKI opened in 2017 and is the dream of Mark Anderson who wanted to build a quarantine facility on such a scale that it would allow him to offer Niigata Koi to hobbyists at wholesale prices. He has most definitely achieved his goal! They have everything from 6” Tosai to award winners like their 87cm Tancho Kujaku that I believe won 1st prize at the All Japan show in 2019. Needless to say, we went back in August to buy ‘a koi’ and ended up with FIVE – two Yamamatsu Gosanke, a Miyatora Shiro Utsuri and Soragoi and a Koda Ochiba. Never thought we could afford such lovely fish.

    Besides the koi, there is a well-stocked shop, and if you’re a bit partial to cats, kittens and dogs too, you’ll definitely enjoy a visit to JKI. To be honest, there’s nothing I enjoy more than a few hours gazing lovingly at Mark’s prize koi with one of his kittens on my shoulder

    JKI are still open to the public Monday to Saturday at present - they don’t tend to get a lot of clients turning up at once as it is a HUGE facility so keeping a 2m distance is not a problem. Their Tosai and Nisai stock is much less than is was last year as they’ve been so successful with sales, but still plenty to see and well worth a visit if we are not in total lockdown, though best to call ahead to check. Web link: https://www.japankoiimports.com/

    There ends my bit of shameless promotion... but these guys really deserve it!
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  22. Thanks Ajm, anne, freddyboy, samp09, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,507
    Thanks / Likes
    3638
    Don't yer just love a happy ending...………..I do.............nice one John....

  24. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy, Koiz, samp09, smartin, john1, RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  25. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    11,220
    Thanks / Likes
    21136
    Glad it's all sorted mate . Some stunning fish you have there mate

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  26. Thanks freddyboy, Koiz, anne, samp09, smartin, john1, RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    2,464
    Thanks / Likes
    5204
    great result and very nice of them to take in your injured fish, just shows there are still some nice people around....... i like your happy looking fish

  28. Thanks freddyboy, john1, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,700
    Thanks / Likes
    15243
    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    john1 mentioned that Japan Koi Import "need to be known" so I hope you won’t mind if I take this chance to do just that…

    I came across JKI in June last year when I was hunting for a local stockist that sold Potassium Permanganate. They are based in Needingworth, Huntingdon and after what felt like a magical mystery tour down the country road that leads to JKI, I was blown away by what I found.

    JKI opened in 2017 and is the dream of Mark Anderson who wanted to build a quarantine facility on such a scale that it would allow him to offer Niigata Koi to hobbyists at wholesale prices. He has most definitely achieved his goal! They have everything from 6” Tosai to award winners like their 87cm Tancho Kujaku that I believe won 1st prize at the All Japan show in 2019. Needless to say, we went back in August to buy ‘a koi’ and ended up with FIVE – two Yamamatsu Gosanke, a Miyatora Shiro Utsuri and Soragoi and a Koda Ochiba. Never thought we could afford such lovely fish.

    Besides the koi, there is a well-stocked shop, and if you’re a bit partial to cats, kittens and dogs too, you’ll definitely enjoy a visit to JKI. To be honest, there’s nothing I enjoy more than a few hours gazing lovingly at Mark’s prize koi with one of his kittens on my shoulder

    JKI are still open to the public Monday to Saturday at present - they don’t tend to get a lot of clients turning up at once as it is a HUGE facility so keeping a 2m distance is not a problem. Their Tosai and Nisai stock is much less than is was last year as they’ve been so successful with sales, but still plenty to see and well worth a visit if we are not in total lockdown, though best to call ahead to check. Web link: https://www.japankoiimports.com/

    There ends my bit of shameless promotion... but these guys really deserve it!
    Great to hear all is good Wendy and she is back with her buddies.

    I do believe koi have buddies as I watch mine all the time,I have two males and they are inseparable, they will never be parted.
    Both have had ulsers and pulled through not the best of looking koi but they will never leave my pond.

    So glad yours has pulled through so now you can enjoy watching them as we are now home bound.
    John

  30. Thanks freddyboy, Koiz, RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Powys
    Posts
    1,021
    Thanks / Likes
    1703
    [QUOTE=john1; So glad yours has pulled through so now you can enjoy watching them as we are now home bound.[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely - It's at times like these that all the hard work we put into our ponds pays off and I'm so grateful I live in a house with a garden that can accommodate Koi. They bring joy to me every day even when I'm stressing out about ANOTHER fluke out break... but that's another story
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

  32. Thanks john1, Ajm, freddyboy, RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  33. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,700
    Thanks / Likes
    15243
    A .lot of folk cant understand what we see in these fish except us,it is a very rewarding but expensive hobby but one I wont be giving up until my age or health tells me to.

    Enjoy your koi Wendy.
    John

  34. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy, RS2OOO, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  35. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,937
    Thanks / Likes
    13163
    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Hi Everyone, I’m delighted to write a post that I think will put a smile on everyone’s face - and in the face of this pandemic, I think we could all do with that

    After 4 months with Japan Koi Import, my Yamabuki has made a complete recovery and she is now back home ... and yes he turned out to be a she!

    I’ve attached photos of her healing process at 2 Weeks, 4 Weeks and 3 Months, and then one of her finally home with her nine buddies. JKI kept her for me till Spring when my temps were up and then acclimatised her so she was ready to go back into my unheated pond. As soon as she was released, she was shoaling with the largest of my koi that she's grown up with for 9 years and they’ve been inseparable since. I know fish are not supposed to have long term memories but when you see this sort of thing it's hard not to believe that's wrong.

    Bobby at JKI took over her care at Christmas and I can’t thank him and Mark, JKI’s owner, enough for their help and support. A combination of some antibiotics, heat and Aqua Source Vitalize and Enzyme resulted in this complete recovery. You honestly cannot see that the damage was there at all. Quite Miraculous
    What a brilliant result, and thank you for updating, just goes to show what is possible with the right care.

  36. Thanks Ajm, john1, freddyboy, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
  37. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Posts
    874
    Thanks / Likes
    1157
    Excellent news. Pleased for you and the fish

  38. Thanks john1, freddyboy, Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:36 PM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.