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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    white spot part 2

    As you know the pond was treated yesterday with FMG due to our Doitsu Karasigoi being covered in white spot especially in the fins I confirmed this diagnosis by a scrape and easily found white spot under the scope, none of our other fish are showing signs of white spot as yet, i am slightly confused and wonder what your views are, until the white spots showing on the fish two days ago there was no sign of it, under the scope yesterday what i saw was a clear white spot mass and also saw inside the mass the horse shoe shaped pale part which from what i have read is a very mature parasite meaning that its been in the pond for a while possibly, our doitsu has not shown as yet any symptoms ie no sulking, its feeding well, fins are up, always comes up to greet me, swimming around with the others etc not showing signs of an infested fish at all...... this morning upon inspection the fish has got a lot of very raised red veins down its back in particular amongst its linear scale pattern, along its flanks and underneath, the Maratan Kohaku has some raised veins too especially in its white areas as easier to see, would this be a stress reaction to the FMG ? Doitsu for sure looking red and blotchy in places....



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Dont panic.. Wat you are seeing could well be a reaction to the MGF or it could be the Ich.

    Doitsu fish are more likely to be impacted more by MGF than scaled fish, think the theory is they absorb more of the medication.

    You will often see some excess mucus appear after a few days, response to the formalin having stripped things - eyes may appear to go cloudy as a result.

    My take is that having identified the problem you need to tough it out, Ich is a fish killer and from what I can see it was in a fairly advanced stage - so fish losses even with treatment are a possibility, without treatment they are probable and could be significant.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Good luck sorting it Steve, hope the FMG fixes it fast.

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Dont panic.. Wat you are seeing could well be a reaction to the MGF or it could be the Ich.

    Doitsu fish are more likely to be impacted more by MGF than scaled fish, think the theory is they absorb more of the medication.

    You will often see some excess mucus appear after a few days, response to the formalin having stripped things - eyes may appear to go cloudy as a result.




    My take is that having identified the problem you need to tough it out, Ich is a fish killer and from what I can see it was in a fairly advanced stage - so fish losses even with treatment are a possibility, without treatment they are probable and could be significant.
    Thanks Dave I appreciate your experience and views on these issues, its quite reassuring the help you all provide to us novices...… I am learning fast though as it is a steep learning curve for sure !! cheers Steve.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Good luck sorting it Steve, hope the FMG fixes it fast.
    Cheers RS, Me too,

    on your other reply you think the fish would of already had it ? there was no sign of it visually and the fish appeared in great health, do you think its the stress and different water temp that kicked it all off, ie it was a carrier of white spot ? again my lack of knowledge but I was led to believe that the quarantine procedures that his fish go through would not of allowed this ? I guess its a difficult one ?? cheers mate Steve.

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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Not 100% sure mate, only really had to deal with white spot on my fish a couple of times but have been involved with loads of other people with it over the years.

    The ich lifecycle lasts around 3 weeks at 10C and 6 to 7 days at 22C to 25C.

    So if the Koi was bought at the upper end of those temps and you've had it less than a Week, then yes it was a carrier as the spots become visible to the eye at the end of the life-cycle.

    If temps were below that then could have been carrying for longer.

    I don't think I've ever seen so many on a single fish. In a big pond most white spot theronts (baby free swimming whitespots that live for 2 days without a host) will die before they find a host as the water volume is so vast compared to the number of available fish, so whether they came from your pond or a dealers pond, to have that many I'd say the water is properly infested.

    Thing is, you just can't be sure unless this fish was purchased within the above time frames and it was the first fish to show symptoms.

    If other fish in your pond have them and are equally infested then they may have existed in your pond before this fish was introduced.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 04-08-2019 at 11:12 PM.

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  12. #7
    Jesus Steve. you are not having much luck mate hope everything works out of mate.

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Craig- View Post
    Jesus Steve. you are not having much luck mate hope everything works out of mate.
    Cheers Craig, yes its a bit frustrating to say the least especially when your trying to be careful and selective from where you get your fish etc, part of the hobby I guess...… I just hope they get through it..... cheers Steve

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai bowsaw's Avatar
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    keep on top of the treatment, unfortunately due to the life cycle it looks like your winning the war and the second and third waves hit the all ready weakened fish.
    the slow pond build thread

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    oh I see Bowsaw so the worst is yet to come then i really hope I do not lose any fish.... regarding the lifecycle of white spot, with water temps in my pond being on average 17 degrees do you think 3 x 7 days treatment will suffice ? thanks Steve

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  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    oh I see Bowsaw so the worst is yet to come then i really hope I do not lose any fish.... regarding the lifecycle of white spot, with water temps in my pond being on average 17 degrees do you think 3 x 7 days treatment will suffice ? thanks Steve
    I got rid of mine in 2 goes. And put a 3rd in to make sure lol. Eggs.
    Scraped them at end of 2nd dose.
    All was well. And scraped again a month later so I assume it worked. And my water temps where 16 to 17 c lol
    Fred

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  21. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    I got rid of mine in 2 goes. And put a 3rd in to make sure lol. Eggs.
    Scraped them at end of 2nd dose.
    All was well. And scraped again a month later so I assume it worked. And my water temps where 16 to 17 c lol
    Fred

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    ok Freddy cheers mate...… Steve.

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  23. #13
    Hi sorry to jump in here with white spot treatment can I use FMG with Rudd and Tench in the pond is it safe if not what would best way to treat it.

  24. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai smartin's Avatar
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    Hi Marckoi,

    i am no expert on treatments but as far as i know you should not use FMG with rudd,tench, sturgeon....... sure others will offer something up soon that you can use with delicate fish, good luck Steve.

  25. #15
    Hi Steve many thanks hopefully someone will shed some light

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  27. #16
    I had a rudd, two tench and two roach up until a month ago.
    Still got the tench but roach and rudd have been moved on.
    I've used FMG a few times with them in the pond with no known issues.
    Not sure why or what the reason it's not recommended.

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  29. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marckoi View Post
    Hi Steve many thanks hopefully someone will shed some light
    hi mate I had flukes in the summer. and used fluke m. was ok for a week and re- scraped the fish. then found that I had white spot. fish immune system down due to treatments.
    my problem was that I had orfs tench and rudd mixed with my koi fish. no chance of catching them. to separate as my pond is 7 feet deep. 6 foot of water.
    so I had to take a chance. with NTLabs FM& G mix. and the delicate fish came through it ok. orfs tench and rudd. I did 2 doses of fm &g mix
    they recommend using eradick for delicate fish. which is I believe milder then FMG. link below
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NT-Labs-P....c100005.m1851

    the experts also reckon using malachite green on its own. without the the formalin. that's for such as sturgeon orfs rudd and tench here is a link read treatments
    https://www.pond-life.me.uk/fishhealth/ichthyophthirius

    hope this helps you out and good luck with the treating of your fish. I took a chance and maybe I got lucky using fmg together.
    fred

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