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  1. #1

    Colombo lernex pro

    So after the constant return of flukes after about 1 month I have now dosed the pond with Lernex Pro. Hopefully this will kill them once and for-all.

    So I did a 20% water change prior to medicating
    UV in drum turned off
    Trickle feed turned off
    Then treated, that was done on Sunday 30th June.

    Last night 4th July I noticed 2 fish flash. Thats the first time since I put the Lernex in, so I am hoping this is just part of the 14 day treatment.

    Can anyone comment on Lernex who has used it before?



  2. #2
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youmustcomply View Post
    So after the constant return of flukes after about 1 month I have now dosed the pond with Lernex Pro. Hopefully this will kill them once and for-all.

    So I did a 20% water change prior to medicating
    UV in drum turned off
    Trickle feed turned off
    Then treated, that was done on Sunday 30th June.

    Last night 4th July I noticed 2 fish flash. Thats the first time since I put the Lernex in, so I am hoping this is just part of the 14 day treatment.

    Can anyone comment on Lernex who has used it before?
    Did you scrape those latest flashing fish? ... just in case it's something else ... I've seen people having outbreaks of different parasites one after the other before and I had an outbreak of Costia immediately after treating for flukes here a couple of years back.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Good point that trace a few of us have had follow ups.
    I had flukes about 8 weeks ago.
    Then a week later white spot.


    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Good point that trace a few of us have had follow ups.
    I had flukes about 8 weeks ago.
    Then a week later white spot.


    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Yes it seems to be very common ... I think with the fish immune systems being lowered by treatment ... quite often the next bug in the opportunistic parasite queue seizes the advantage.

    You can't take anything for granted when it comes to pond parasites ... testing is the only way to be sure of diagnosis ...

    Proper dosage is important too ... remember there was also a lot of debate about flukes building immunity to certain treatments if they were used too often at a dosage that didn't manage 100% wipe out a few years ago ... I'm not going over that again though because a lot of what I said and the time spent gathering evidence was turned into a complete waste of time by some others ... but what I did notice was that those who did listen to me had a far higher success rate.

    ... in a nutshell though the theory was: if a specific treatment isn't working then don't keep repeatedly using the same treatment, swap to another treatment based on a different main ingredient ...

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Yes it seems to be very common ... I think with the fish immune systems being lowered by treatment ... quite often the next bug in the opportunistic parasite queue seizes the advantage.

    You can't take anything for granted when it comes to pond parasites ... testing is the only way to be sure of diagnosis ...

    Proper dosage is important too ... remember there was also a lot of debate about flukes building immunity to certain treatments if they were used too often at a dosage that didn't manage 100% wipe out a few years ago ... I'm not going over that again though because a lot of what I said and the time spent gathering evidence was turned into a complete waste of time by some others ... but what I did notice was that those who did listen to me had a far higher success rate.

    ... in a nutshell though the theory was: if a specific treatment isn't working then don't keep repeatedly using the same treatment, swap to another treatment based on a different main ingredient ...
    I think a big part of it. The working and not working with treatments. Such as flukes.Is if people take the mucus of the fish first.
    A lot don t seem to do this. And treatments ain't getting the parasites because it's under the mucus. Being protected.
    Plus temperatures play a massive factor.
    When putting treatments In the pond.
    That's just my humble opinion.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    I have used both Lernex and Lernex Pro, a few times and to be honest I did not have a great deal of success with it. I did use PP prior to the fluke treatment to clear the mucus, but it still wasn't completely successful. Also, the fish sulked for a good 10 days after the Lernex treatment. I think that the word 'Pro' makes people think that it is a wonder fluke product but for me it is no better that any of the others. Personally I have found 'Flukesolve' to be the most successful in my pond.

    Apart from flukes becoming immune to treatment, we know that the treatment doesn't kill the fluke eggs, so the second treatment is near enough just guess work due to the eggs gestation period being governed by pond temperature, and also the eggs on the fish will have also been laid at different periods too. This means that there is no exact time to re-dose the pond other than your own experience.

    When the pond is heated through the winter this gives the flukes lots of time to multiply, even if the temp is dropped to maybe 10-11degrees to give the fish a winter period the flukes will still increase at that those temps. So maybe this can cause the spring outbreaks that we see recently.
    For this reason, and being heated myself, over the past three years I have treated the pond for flukes as winter approaches whether the fish need it or not, and have not had any issue come the springtime with flukes since doing that.
    Now I know that the book readers will be going shock horror for treating like this , but in my experience of keeping koi for around 25 years, this does actually work for me, and sometimes, however many times that you scrape a fish you cannot always see that you have gill flukes unless you go into the gill cavity, which I do not like to do.

    I also now alternate from Praziquantel based treatment to Flubenol based, so as to minimise the chance of flukes becoming immune to one type of treatment. However I don't really know why I do this, as it has also not been proved that flukes become immune to some treatments, and just maybe it is again about the second (or third) dose that is incorrectly timed to catch the hatching eggs, but I still alternate treatments anyway....just in case. Lol
    As far as secondary infestations of other parasites after fluke treatments, I have to say that I have never experienced this myself so cannot comment.

    To be honest, I think that introducing new fish to the pond is how most fluke infestations are started,, it is with me anyway, how ever good the dealer is they are not as vigilant as us keepers where flukes are concerned!

    So this is my take on fluke issues and is in line with what Freddyboy says in the above post.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    All this talk of Fluke eggs, is the problem Gill or skin flukes?

    My understanding is that Lernex and Lernex pro have a different cocktail of wormers, I dont think that Lernex pro is licensed in the UK the Guys that I know that have used it have sourced it in Europe.

    I think that pre treating with PP will actually increase mucus on the fish; Duncan was posed this question a couple of months back and that was his response..

    Yes fluke treatments fail, look at the equine world to see the issues with resistance to wormers.. and with more Guys using drums that will pull out the treatment before it gets a chance to work the "problem" is compounded.

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    All this talk of Fluke eggs, is the problem Gill or skin flukes?

    My understanding is that Lernex and Lernex pro have a different cocktail of wormers, I dont think that Lernex pro is licensed in the UK the Guys that I know that have used it have sourced it in Europe.

    I think that pre treating with PP will actually increase mucus on the fish; Duncan was posed this question a couple of months back and that was his response..

    Yes fluke treatments fail, look at the equine world to see the issues with resistance to wormers.. and with more Guys using drums that will pull out the treatment before it gets a chance to work the "problem" is compounded.
    So what is Duncan's latest advice on fluke treatment methods for gill and/or skin flukes?


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    So what is Duncan's latest advice on fluke treatment methods for gill and/or skin flukes?

    I think it best to ask him direct Trace to get bespoke advice based on the problem and the particular set up. He is very helpful.

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    I think it best to ask him direct Trace to get bespoke advice based on the problem and the particular set up. He is very helpful.
    Yes I know I've spoken to him many times ... ok contacting Duncan direct is probably the best advice for the OP then if the flukes or other parasites continue...

    That's an interesting point about Drums....

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Yes I know I've spoken to him many times ... ok contacting Duncan direct is probably the best advice for the OP then if the flukes or other parasites continue...

    That's an interesting point about Drums....
    You asked what was Duncan's latest advice on flukes?

    The OP will hopefully confirm whether the flukes are skin or gill..

    I haven't used Lernex Pro so am not in a position to give practical advice on the OP's question.

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    You asked what was Duncan's latest advice on flukes?

    The OP will hopefully confirm whether the flukes are skin or gill..

    I haven't used Lernex Pro so am not in a position to give practical advice on the OP's question.
    Yes but I'm sure Duncan can help with bespoke info as per your advice .. it was your point about the drums that I was interested in ...

  23. #13
    Praziquantel is my friend when it comes to flukes I bypass the drum for a couple of days during the treatment.

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Praziquantel is my friend when it comes to flukes I bypass the drum for a couple of days during the treatment.
    Does it always work for you for gill and skin flukes? and what dosage rate do you use ? ...

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  27. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Does it always work for you for gill and skin flukes? and what dosage rate do you use ? ...

    Yes! 10gm per 1000 gallons and mixed up with 10ml of formalin and 10ml of water per 10gm Prazi..mix well for 5 minutes to form a paste, allow to stand for 5 minutes, stir and add to a bucket of water, stir again and add to the pond.

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Yes! 10gm per 1000 gallons and mixed up with 10ml of formalin and 10ml of water per 10gm Prazi..mix well for 5 minutes to form a paste, allow to stand for 5 minutes, stir and add to a bucket of water, stir again and add to the pond.
    That's a lot more informative and interesting ... thanks for expanding ...

    What about the timing for later doses for eggs ... what's your dosing schedule that always works?

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  31. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Yes but I'm sure Duncan can help with bespoke info as per your advice .. it was your point about the drums that I was interested in ...
    Hi, sorry but you asked what Duncan’s current thinking was and I responded that it would be best that you ask him.

    Drums can cause issues with some treatments, particularly with worriers that can be very difficult to dissolve into the water column. Whilst using the likes of formalin or acetone as a carrier for the wormer takes a big step forward in dispersing the chemical through the water column , the treatment remains in suspension and can be extracted by the screen of the drum.. whilst the treatment will pass through clean 60 or 80 gram mesh the reality is that as a drum approaches it’s cleaning time in the cycle the mesh will trap solids much smaller than this.

    The best advice to ensure a successful treatment is to take great care with the mixing the treatment and bypass the drum for the duration of the treatment, with no water changes..

    To reduce the impact of fouling of the bio best to knock off feeding for a couple of days before the treatment and try and avoid feeding whilst the drum is in bypass mode.

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  33. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Why sorry ... am I missing the point? I will ask Duncan if I ever have a problem and need help (as I've done in the past) ... I was only originally asking as I am always interested in any new information (especially when it contradicts the way PP seems to be generally thought to affect mucus) and also as the answer may have helped the OP with his constant return of flukes ... are you saying that you want me to ask Duncan then write up what he says back here? ... I don't have a problem just now so I would have to be asking on behalf of the OP which I though would be better if he did that himself like I wrote above ... I get the feeling I'm completely missing the point your trying to make? ...



    Thanks for that ... that's more interesting to me as I don't have a drum so things that are run of the mill for you guys are news to those of us who have no practical experience of them and even though I don't have a drum some of what you say may still be of value in other instances.

    I like to gather and study information (it's just the way I've always been since I was young) but especially on subjects like resilient parasites like flukes where it could make a big difference in the success of treatment so I'm always interested in detailed info ... e.g. if someone writes something like "Just use Fluke M, works everytime, tried everything else, everything else is crap" and I've seen lot's of statements like that on various forums posted most times I would think with the best intentions of helping people but a statement like that does not answer the questions in my head that are important to me e.g. Did you use the advised dose on the packet or a stronger dose? and what were the dosage intervals that you used, ... etc. ...etc?

    I've noticed that when I ask for more details most are happy to help but a few times there seems to be suspicion for some reason (personally I don't have any problem answering any question in detail if I have the answer and I expect to be asked lot's of questions on anything I'm posting about) ... I don't understand any need for secrecy with any subject brought up on a public forum ...

    I like to compare lot's of success and failure stories and see if there are any repetitive patterns good or bad that could give a better chance of success in my own treatments when they are required and I also like to pass on any tips I find useful in the many detailed writeups that I've done on many subjects (as much for my own future reference as anybody elses) ... which again seems to make a small minority angry for some reason ... luckily it is only a handful of people and the thanks I've had for posting the results of my research well outways the pointless time wasting from the angry few and I don't give them a second thought.

    The only thing I really don't like seeing is misinformation/assumption getting quoted as fact without any backup ... anybody making factual claims should be able to easily expand on what they have said ... or what was the point in saying it in the first place?

    If I keep asking questions it's only because I haven't got the answers that are important to me yet or maybe more questions have popped into my head ... there's nothing sinister going on ... I'm just maybe more interested than most in the finer details ... a bit OCD maybe ...
    personally I am fed up with the continual sniping.. This should be a friendly forum..

    It’s time for me to say goodbye to the group.

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I have removed the nasty posts from this thread. Absolutely no need for that kind of nastiness on a site where people come for friendly well meant advice from knowledgable and experienced people.

    DaveJ is a very long standing member of this site (and previous moderator) who does a lot for this hobby and is universally respected and well-liked by everybody except one particular individual who cannot seem to help themselves but snipe at people who have dared to disagree with them in the past.

    For the good of this forum behaviour like that will not be tolerated.

    I for one would be extremely sad to see DaveJ leave this forum because of that kind of thing. I am sure that there are many here who feel the same way.

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  36. #20
    Thanks all who have posted on this thread. It looks like it took abit of a turn but lets bring it back on track, I left the treatment in the pond for the 14 days, with no water changes and the UV off.

    To clarify it was skin flukes that I was finding on the fish.

    My drum uses tap water for its cleaning cycle so I am lucky in the fact I wasn't losing water from the actual pond.


    After the 14 days I did a 20% water change and have now turned my trickle in back on to 210 ml a minute. I am surprised that even though my UV has been off for now 17 days my water is still crystal clear. So i have left it off for the time being.

    I scraped 7 fish today and no signs of flukes. Even on the fish i have seen occasionally seen flash.
    I am hoping this is a good sign and they are actually gone. I will scrape again in a weeks time.

    Now excuse my ignorance, but who is Duncan?
    Last edited by youmustcomply; 17-07-2019 at 01:09 AM.

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