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  1. #101
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Goldman View Post
    How have I answered my own question?

    Thanks for the sympathy and encouragement I hope something like this doesn't happen to you as you seem to know it all. The only reason I put this post up because I see that a number of other people have had a similar issue.


    Have I used Acriflavine before yes tons and tons of times. Has it destroyed my collection that I have built up over many many years in a matter of hours. No. Not even close.


    I have a 10,000 gallon pond and I put in precisely 1 L of the product. This is under dosing. Regarding your KH comment seriously do you honestly know what you're talking about. Anybody who knows me knows I have a Palintest and various other real-time probes testing pH. TDS


    I would never put bicarb in a pond that is one of the dumbest things you can do if you know what you are doing (it wrecks BHM).


    There is absolutely zero in the instructions about KH. Plus I don't understand your hypotheses? I have Ro and natural extremely hard water going in constantly on a trickle. I've got a pretty big filter system. With a pH of seven I would need to have a KH of some insane number to cause a pH crash of the epic proportions that killed an entire 10,000 gallon pond. I doubt if I put 1 L of hydrochloric acid in the pond considering that is 0.002% excluding the filters of the pond volume.


    I'm guessing you're not good at chemistry? I certainly recommend nobody consults you before doing anything to their pond... As I said before I'm not trying to lay the blame on anyone it was me that put the bottle of stuff in there so I'm the one that killed all my fish. I can guarantee you it wasn't KH.

    Eddie sorry to jump in here, but your point about Bicarb destroying BHM I never knew that, being new to the hobby I've been using it at around a tablespoon daily, as my KH is 1 at best out of the tap, my PH in both pond and QT is always above 7.
    Can you explain further, as and when you are able Thanks
    Last edited by Tom Koi; 03-04-2021 at 06:47 PM.

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  3. #102
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Eddie, Could you also clarify your comment about having an insane kH number causing a pH crash?

    I'm only asking as I thought kH kept the pH up (I thought pH levels off in the 8's if kH is very high....) not caused it to go down?

    I'm no expert, and like Tom Koi, im just looking to understand what you mean.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  5. #103
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Just to clarify- BHM is an inert ceramic media and is not affected by bicarb. It does not dissolve in anything. Those people with soft water who are adding bicarb are just making their KH level the same as someone with naturally harder water.

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  7. #104
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Just to clarify- BHM is an inert ceramic media and is not affected by bicarb. It does not dissolve in anything. Those people with soft water who are adding bicarb are just making their KH level the same as someone with naturally harder water.

    Thanks for that, I thought I was destroying 80kgs of BHM

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  9. #105
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    First off it is horrible to read of the massive losses you have suffered and like yourself any one of us on here would be absolutely devastated.

    I've not read the background of this thread prior to the posts of the last few days so apologies if what I'm about to say has already been covered.

    I've read a few times about koi losses after administering Alparex and in multiple cases the water remained a very powerful radio active looking green colour that was difficult to dilute out. But also in all those cases there was no definitive/confirmed KH measurements prior to treatment.

    Could there be a link between low KH and the water staining?

    Or as some people like to suggest a problem with the product in these cases?

    There is no definite conclusion that I'm aware of.

    The fact that you are running RO and not adding bicarb sounds suspect in view of the koi losses after administering Alparex. That is a fine balancing act for even the most experienced koi keeper.

    My pH is 8.2, KH usually between 8 and 11, not great for growth or developing show koi I know, but I've treated Alparex as per instructions and my koi reacted very well to it, much better than they do with FMG. The green water is completely cleared within max 5 days of 2nd dose without any water changes.

    I hope you can get to the bottom of the precise cause of your loss and if you do go down the autopsy route it would be very helpful if you wouldn't mind sharing the results.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

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  11. #106
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    First off it is horrible to read of the massive losses you have suffered and like yourself any one of us on here would be absolutely devastated.

    I've not read the background of this thread prior to the posts of the last few days so apologies if what I'm about to say has already been covered.

    I've read a few times about koi losses after administering Alparex and in multiple cases the water remained a very powerful radio active looking green colour that was difficult to dilute out. But also in all those cases there was no definitive/confirmed KH measurements prior to treatment.

    Could there be a link between low KH and the water staining?

    Or as some people like to suggest a problem with the product in these cases?

    There is no definite conclusion that I'm aware of.

    The fact that you are running RO and not adding bicarb sounds suspect in view of the koi losses after administering Alparex. That is a fine balancing act for even the most experienced koi keeper.

    My pH is 8.2, KH usually between 8 and 11, not great for growth or developing show koi I know, but I've treated Alparex as per instructions and my koi reacted very well to it, much better than they do with FMG. The green water is completely cleared within max 5 days of 2nd dose without any water changes.

    I hope you can get to the bottom of the precise cause of your loss and if you do go down the autopsy route it would be very helpful if you wouldn't mind sharing the results.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
    I've bought a few Pond Treatment products, to have stock here if and when its needed, been looking up the products and Chloramine - T is another product that low KH can affect, I've got that here and Acriflavine, I use Bicarb daily in both my filters, my Ph seems steady, but my KH out of the tap is 1 at best, I'm at a loss as to what's safe to use now!

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  13. #107
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    I've bought a few Pond Treatment products, to have stock here if and when its needed, been looking up the products and Chloramine - T is another product that low KH can affect, I've got that here and Acriflavine, I use Bicarb daily in both my filters, my Ph seems steady, but my KH out of the tap is 1 at best, I'm at a loss as to what's safe to use now!
    The dosage on the packet of CT is usually low enough to cater for ponds with low pH unless the packet specifically states otherwise. If anything it is normally the case the stated CT dose on the packet is too low for ponds with higher pH.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

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  15. #108
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Thank you for reply Eddie

    Your obviously missing the basics .

    with a ph of 7 i can assure you your KH will be lower than 4 .

    A kh of 4 in my pond ( soft water area ) the PH runs at 7.4 .

    No way would i ever consider using alparex with a ph of 7 ,

    Last time i used it , it was clearly stated on the instructions kh must be over 4 . ?



    60 k spent on koi but not a tenner on a KH test kit . The only sympathy i have is for the koi

    My chemistry is good thank you ....i,m not the one who has wiped out their pond .


    BTW ......Bicarb doesnt effect BHM ......again Eddie you have answered your own question with a lack of knowledge .

    If you decide to re stock it would be worth going back to basics with simple test kits to back up other results from tests .

    hope this helps
    Last edited by Bigmel; 08-04-2021 at 08:36 PM. Reason: spelling

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  17. #109
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Hi Tom
    where i live the kh from the tap is 1 at best .
    I use bicarb weekly to get a KH of 4 .
    Its best to use a ph test kit along with a KH test kit . I use the API master test kit , but you need to buy the KH test seperately .

    Basically if you keep your KH at 4 (or above) you wont get a PH crash over night .and your pond will tick along perfectly .

    You sort of know eventually how much bicarb to use for a KH of 4 ....this depends on pond size , feed rates and stocking levels '

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  19. #110
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmel View Post
    Hi Tom
    where i live the kh from the tap is 1 at best .
    I use bicarb weekly to get a KH of 4 .
    Its best to use a ph test kit along with a KH test kit . I use the API master test kit , but you need to buy the KH test seperately .

    Basically if you keep your KH at 4 (or above) you wont get a PH crash over night .and your pond will tick along perfectly .

    You sort of know eventually how much bicarb to use for a KH of 4 ....this depends on pond size , feed rates and stocking levels '


    Pond is 5000 gals, I add around a tablespoon of bicarb to drum every morning, PH is always between 7 & 8 every time I test, I'm using NT Labs liquid test kit, but I've Palintest Tabs here for KH and everything else, just find it easier using the liquid test kit, to be honest I haven't tested the KH from water in pond, just from tap, I'll check it tomorrow, Thanks.

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  21. #111
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmel View Post
    Thank you for reply Eddie

    Your obviously missing the basics .

    with a ph of 7 i can assure you your KH will be lower than 4 .

    A kh of 4 in my pond ( soft water area ) the PH runs at 7.4 .

    No way would i ever consider using alparex with a ph of 7 ,

    Last time i used it , it was clearly stated on the instructions kh must be over 4 . ?



    60 k spent on koi but not a tenner on a KH test kit . The only sympathy i have is for the koi

    My chemistry is good thank you ....i,m not the one who has wiped out their pond .


    BTW ......Bicarb doesnt effect BHM ......again Eddie you have answered your own question with a lack of knowledge .

    If you decide to re stock it would be worth going back to basics with simple test kits to back up other results from tests .

    hope this helps
    Agree with Mel and I am in the same vote with kh zero to 1 so have to monitor all the time but you get used to it and know when to add.
    John

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  23. #112
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai LouiseR's Avatar
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    In post #100 above I referenced the conflicting information re: how to use Alparex so, to avoid any confusion, I emailed Colombo to ask them to confirm what their advice is re: KH and waiting periods when other products have been used, particularly Flubendazole and similar products. This is the reply that I received:

    ”The KH of the pond water when treating with Morenicol Alparex has to be at least 6dH. Flubendazole and related substances can be a lethal combination with Alparex and thus we advise a waiting period of at least 4 weeks and refreshing the water for 25%.

    Our manual is always the same as our advice. If other people advise differently, it is their choice and we never support it. I have included the manual with all necessary information for a successful treatment with Alparex.”

    The manual included in Colombo’s email is the same as the instruction leaflet that I provided a link to in post #100. For convenience that link is as follows: https://colombo.nl/wp-content/upload...er-Alparex.pdf

    Hope this helps - please pass this information on to anyone considering using Alparex.

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  25. #113
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai LouiseR's Avatar
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    So, the final piece of the puzzle has been provided by Gazkoi - he stocks Colombo Alparex and very kindly took the time to send me photos of the instructions on the box plus photos of the instruction leaflet that comes with the product.

    The abbreviated instructions on the outside of the box state “Always test the water quality before use especially the KH is important and should be at least 5dH.” This might explain why U.K. dealers repeat this statement on their website.

    The instruction leaflet that comes with the product matches the leaflet that I linked in my posts above - which Colombo have confirmed is their ‘operative’ instruction manual re: the use of Alparex. In this leaflet it’s clearly stated that “.... a good water quality is essential. Hence, always test the water quality before and after the treatment, and correct when necessary. The KH value is especially important as this should be between 6 and 8dH before the treatment is started.”

    Whilst it’s unhelpful that the required KH value differs between the outside of the box and the instruction leaflet that comes with the product, it’s to be hoped, and likely, that anyone using the product would follow the far more comprehensive information contained in the leaflet.

    Signing off with many thanks to Gazkoi,

    Miss Alparex Marple

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  27. #114
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Gazkoi's Avatar
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    You’re welcome Louise - pleased to assist.

    Cheers

    Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by LouiseR View Post
    So, the final piece of the puzzle has been provided by Gazkoi - he stocks Colombo Alparex and very kindly took the time to send me photos of the instructions on the box plus photos of the instruction leaflet that comes with the product.

    The abbreviated instructions on the outside of the box state “Always test the water quality before use especially the KH is important and should be at least 5dH.” This might explain why U.K. dealers repeat this statement on their website.

    The instruction leaflet that comes with the product matches the leaflet that I linked in my posts above - which Colombo have confirmed is their ‘operative’ instruction manual re: the use of Alparex. In this leaflet it’s clearly stated that “.... a good water quality is essential. Hence, always test the water quality before and after the treatment, and correct when necessary. The KH value is especially important as this should be between 6 and 8dH before the treatment is started.”

    Whilst it’s unhelpful that the required KH value differs between the outside of the box and the instruction leaflet that comes with the product, it’s to be hoped, and likely, that anyone using the product would follow the far more comprehensive information contained in the leaflet.

    Signing off with many thanks to Gazkoi,

    Miss Alparex Marple
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Ecoís, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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