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  1. #101
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Makes sense.

    I did see on their website they have a self drive option so is that the bit that's not available in the UK?
    Yeah you can use the self drive in the UK, we have it on Rocinante. It’s a software extra you pay for as an option. It’s different to ‘summon’ though, because you have to be both in the car and be holding the wheel- if it doesn’t detect any feedback from you via the wheel it will force you to take back control. Summon mode you can make the car come to you, for example across a car park.

    Im not particularly keen on using it myself as it’s still very much a work in progress and you have to be on the ball in case it suddenly tries to kill you. The major limitation is it uses a set of cameras to decide what is near you, which can be blinded by certain weather conditions. Every once in a while it will brake for no reason in the middle lane of the motorway (usually because it thinks it’s detected a HGV pulling out when it’s not). You have to be alert enough to override that before someone hits you up the back. The car gets firmware updates regularly, and the self drive does improve a lot, so one day it will get there. It’s just not there yet right now in our opinion.

    My OH does use self drive a fair bit tho for the lols. It has a ‘Mad Max’ mode- apparently that’s quite exciting on the motorway

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  3. #102
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Even this hybrid shifts,when I put my foot down as you do on a test run it shoved me back in my seat very surprised.
    How's the new motor then John

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Yeah you can use the self drive in the UK, we have it on Rocinante. It’s a software extra you pay for as an option. It’s different to ‘summon’ though, because you have to be both in the car and be holding the wheel- if it doesn’t detect any feedback from you via the wheel it will force you to take back control. Summon mode you can make the car come to you, for example across a car park.

    Im not particularly keen on using it myself as it’s still very much a work in progress and you have to be on the ball in case it suddenly tries to kill you. The major limitation is it uses a set of cameras to decide what is near you, which can be blinded by certain weather conditions. Every once in a while it will brake for no reason in the middle lane of the motorway (usually because it thinks it’s detected a HGV pulling out when it’s not). You have to be alert enough to override that before someone hits you up the back. The car gets firmware updates regularly, and the self drive does improve a lot, so one day it will get there. It’s just not there yet right now in our opinion.

    My OH does use self drive a fair bit tho for the lols. It has a ‘Mad Max’ mode- apparently that’s quite exciting on the motorway
    Sounds very much like OH's driving as that has a tendency to try and kill you
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  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    How's the new motor then John

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Great thanks Aj, wife useing it more than me as she has done 60 MLS in 2 days!!!
    Mpg is 53 dont think it's as good as my Honda civic which I part x'd as that was very good on a diesel,best I got from it was 75 mpg on a run and easy on the gas.
    John

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  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    How's the new motor then John

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    By the sound of things it's that fast Aj that by the time he gets back from a long drive this thread hasn't even been started.

    Back to future style
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  10. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Great thanks Aj, wife useing it more than me as she has done 60 MLS in 2 days!!!
    Mpg is 53 dont think it's as good as my Honda civic which I part x'd as that was very good on a diesel,best I got from it was 75 mpg on a run and easy on the gas.
    Not think the fuel is using more as your putting your foot down off the line more having a play around with it

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  12. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Every once in a while it will brake for no reason in the middle lane of the motorway (usually because it thinks it’s detected a HGV pulling out when it’s not). You have to be alert enough to override that before someone hits you up the back.
    My friend has just taken delivery of a Model 3 as his company car, had it less than 2 weeks and had someone hit him up the arse as he left a roundabout and went onto a slip road when the car braked for no reason. He has it all on Sentry camera which is again one of those great in built features of a Tesla, but personally, I'd rather the car didn't cause an accident in the first place than have the technology to make sure that it's recorded when it does!

    Whilst this is clearly the responsibility of the driver behind being able to stop in time, my mate said he actually feels really sorry for him given the circumstances. Fortunately the damage is slight. Going to be a difficult one to play out over time I think with technology having some of the involvement of these accidents.

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  14. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetBazza View Post
    Whilst this is clearly the responsibility of the driver behind being able to stop in time, my mate said he actually feels really sorry for him given the circumstances. Fortunately the damage is slight. Going to be a difficult one to play out over time I think with technology having some of the involvement of these accidents.
    That's actually not a given. For example it would be dangerous driving to perform an emergency stop in the fast lane of the motorway without good reason. The fact that the person didn't have control of the Tesla is opens them up to both criminal and legal lawsuits by insurance companies.
    UK law does not recognise an car in autopilot as a legal entity thus the human driver on the road is still liable for the control and safety.
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  15. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    That's actually not a given. For example it would be dangerous driving to perform an emergency stop in the fast lane of the motorway without good reason. The fact that the person didn't have control of the Tesla is opens them up to both criminal and legal lawsuits by insurance companies.
    UK law does not recognise an car in autopilot as a legal entity thus the human driver on the road is still liable for the control and safety.
    I think performing an emergency stop without good reason in front of someone on the motorway is more likely to be the result of a road rage incident between drivers and doesn't really fit under the same category as most "accidents".

    With regards to not being under control of the Tesla comment, I'm not sure I agree. The car's autopilot and any other manufacturers cars driver assist systems are all approved for use in the UK surely, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed on the vehicles?

    In this case, we are talking about collision avoidance systems coming into play, which are fitted to most new cars today in some guise. Indeed I believe it is these driver assist systems that actually also contribute to lower premiums from insurers because of their added safety, so again, your use of the terms "didn't have control" making them liable to legal lawsuits by the insurers seems highly unlikely as the insurers are well aware of the systems in play. If that were the case, then all of us are pretty much screwed for driving our cars day to day because we are not completely "in control"?

    Maybe the Tesla system applies the brakes more vigorously than other manufacturer systems, I can't say as I haven't experienced it?

    As I say in my original post, going to be interesting to see how these play out over time with autonomy involved.

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  17. #110
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    30 odd years ago I performed an overtake of two slow vehicles (learner drivers) on my motorcycle on a long straight country road with no junctions other than a couple of field gates, I pulled back into line and was using a fair proportion of my braking power to regulate down to the speed of the Ford Granada in front when he made a sudden emergency stop, I had a decent gap but I didn't have enough braking capacity left and promptly hit him from behind. I landed on the boot of the Granada before falling onto the tarmac whilst my trashed bike found its way into the hedge.

    Anyway, so there I was dazed and bleeding from a broken nose and pretty beat up, while the chap ( local market gardener / farmer) told me he'd decided to stop to look in one of his fields, fair enough but in the middle of the road and in full emergency stop mode seemed a bit off.

    He was happy to just call it 50 / 50 and live with the dinge in the back of his old car if I was happy to take care of my bent motorcycle and leave the insurance out of it, I figured that seeing as I hit him from the rear I was on a loser so readily agreed.

    I've always wondered though if I was truly wholly to blame given his sudden stop in the middle of a straight national speed limit road for no good reason other than to admire his cabbages. I always thought there were no extenuating circumstances if you hit a vehicle from the rear, is this actually right or are there times the vehicle in front could be found to be partly or wholly responsible?

  18. #111
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai GadgetBazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    for no good reason other than to admire his cabbages
    That made laugh! Sorry!

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  20. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    30 odd years ago I performed an overtake of two slow vehicles (learner drivers) on my motorcycle on a long straight country road with no junctions other than a couple of field gates, I pulled back into line and was using a fair proportion of my braking power to regulate down to the speed of the Ford Granada in front when he made a sudden emergency stop, I had a decent gap but I didn't have enough braking capacity left and promptly hit him from behind. I landed on the boot of the Granada before falling onto the tarmac whilst my trashed bike found its way into the hedge.

    Anyway, so there I was dazed and bleeding from a broken nose and pretty beat up, while the chap ( local market gardener / farmer) told me he'd decided to stop to look in one of his fields, fair enough but in the middle of the road and in full emergency stop mode seemed a bit off.

    He was happy to just call it 50 / 50 and live with the dinge in the back of his old car if I was happy to take care of my bent motorcycle and leave the insurance out of it, I figured that seeing as I hit him from the rear I was on a loser so readily agreed.

    I've always wondered though if I was truly wholly to blame given his sudden stop in the middle of a straight national speed limit road for no good reason other than to admire his cabbages. I always thought there were no extenuating circumstances if you hit a vehicle from the rear, is this actually right or are there times the vehicle in front could be found to be partly or wholly responsible?
    Cabbages or not you need to be far enough back to stop
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  22. #113
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Cabbages or not you need to be far enough back to stop
    Yes that's how I always understood it, but below are two legal cases involving rear enders that solicitors quote and would suggest that is not always the case, the 1981 motorcycle collision was only a few years before my accident.

    Rear end crashes and sudden braking

    Gusman v Gratton-Storey (1968). The defendant was driving on a country road in daylight and applied her breaks violently in order to avoid hitting a pheasant. The claimant was driving close behind and ran into the back to the defendant’s car. The judge found the defendant 100% to blame for braking and swerving to avoid a pheasant when there was a car behind.

    Elixabeth v Motor Insurer s Bureau (1981). A motorcyclist struck the rear of a van that had braked suddenly for no apparent reason. The court found that sudden braking for no apparent reason was evidence of negligence and, on that basis, found the van driver 100% at fault for the accident.

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  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    Yes that's how I always understood it, but below are two legal cases involving rear enders that solicitors quote and would suggest that is not always the case, the 1981 motorcycle collision was only a few years before my accident.

    Rear end crashes and sudden braking

    Gusman v Gratton-Storey (1968). The defendant was driving on a country road in daylight and applied her breaks violently in order to avoid hitting a pheasant. The claimant was driving close behind and ran into the back to the defendantís car. The judge found the defendant 100% to blame for braking and swerving to avoid a pheasant when there was a car behind.

    Elixabeth v Motor Insurer s Bureau (1981). A motorcyclist struck the rear of a van that had braked suddenly for no apparent reason. The court found that sudden braking for no apparent reason was evidence of negligence and, on that basis, found the van driver 100% at fault for the accident.

    I believe the lack of cabbages is the reason!
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  26. #115
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    I believe the lack of cabbages is the reason!
    That sir must be it lol

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  28. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetBazza View Post
    I think performing an emergency stop without good reason in front of someone on the motorway is more likely to be the result of a road rage incident between drivers and doesn't really fit under the same category as most "accidents".

    With regards to not being under control of the Tesla comment, I'm not sure I agree. The car's autopilot and any other manufacturers cars driver assist systems are all approved for use in the UK surely, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed on the vehicles?

    In this case, we are talking about collision avoidance systems coming into play, which are fitted to most new cars today in some guise. Indeed I believe it is these driver assist systems that actually also contribute to lower premiums from insurers because of their added safety, so again, your use of the terms "didn't have control" making them liable to legal lawsuits by the insurers seems highly unlikely as the insurers are well aware of the systems in play. If that were the case, then all of us are pretty much screwed for driving our cars day to day because we are not completely "in control"?

    Maybe the Tesla system applies the brakes more vigorously than other manufacturer systems, I can't say as I haven't experienced it?

    As I say in my original post, going to be interesting to see how these play out over time with autonomy involved.
    Some Fords have what I think is called active city stop which is designed to stop the vehicle hitting another vehicle in traffic. It works up to just under 30 mph but I've read it detects puddles as another vehicle and slams the breaks on.

    Then there was a Merc that had something similar and they tested it on Top Gear. They done the test on a really foggy night and drive it out of a clear fog free building into the fog that had zero visibility as that's what they said Merc had claimed it would work in. Hidden by the fog was another vehicle that the Merc was supposed to detect and stop before running into it. Well the Merc drove into the fog applied it's brakes as you could see the brake lights come on and then there was a loud bang as the Merc hit the other vehicle. The expert from Merc that was there said it was a success as the Merc did apply it's brakes and stop. But Clarkson was very quick to point out that it still hit the other vehicle so how could it be a success. The guy from Merc said some thing like "well it stopped didn't it?"

    Technology is very good when it's new and works but it can go wrong very quickly and when you least expect it so it's never a good idea to rely on it 100%
    Last edited by Frimley Koi keeper; 04-10-2021 at 06:08 PM.
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  30. #117
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Some Fords have what I think is called active city stop which is designed to stop the vehicle hitting another vehicle in traffic. It works up to just under 30 mph but I've read it detects puddles as another vehicle and slams the breaks on.

    Then there was a Merc that had something similar and they tested it on Top Gear. They done the test on a really foggy night and drive it out of a clear fog free building into the fog that had zero visibility as that's what they said Merc had claimed it would work in. Hidden by the fog was another vehicle that the Merc was supposed to detect and stop before running into it. Well the Merc drove into the fog applied it's brakes as you could see the brake lights come on and then there was a loud bang as the Merc hit the other vehicle. The expert from Merc that was there said it was a success as the Merc did apply it's brakes and stop. But Clarkson was very quick to point out that it still hit the other vehicle so how could it be a success. The guy from Merc said some thing like "well it stopped didn't it?"

    Technology is very good when it's new and works but it can go wrong very quickly and when you least expect it so it's never a good idea to rely on it 100%
    reminds me of this video...


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  32. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    reminds me of this video...

    WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and no one was injured !!!!!!!!!!!! That guy should have had 2 broken legs once they scraped him off the bonnet FFS !!!!!!!!!! The guy filming it that also got hit had to make a claim for some new pants and he must have touched cloth when that happened !!!!!!!!!!!
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  34. #119
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    What a bunch of half wits for not checking the car actually had the system fitted or trying it out on some boxes first
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