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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Cats and Koi Logic

    I’ve made this thread in response to @SamuraiJack’s post in @smartin’s thread about the sad loss of his lovely little Doitsu Showa. Mo’s post really touched my heart and I couldn’t get it out of my head:

    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
    Really sorry for your loss, it was a real beauty but you done the right thing, my family are real worried about me because i get real attached to my pets, on 1st of June 2019 i had to put down my pedigree BSH who was very vocal, it got hit by a car, his name was Drizzt, i had to be referred for counselling by the vet, i still miss him very much and avoid the place where i found him crying, it's in koi heaven now mate swimming around in a beautiful pond. Mo
    Some of what I am about to say may seem controversial, so I wish to make it clear that what I am sharing here comes with good intentions: if I can save just one other cat and its owner from going through what Mo has been through, then the risk of ridicule from writing this is worth it.

    Like Mo, I get very attached to my pets. Perhaps too attached. I consider them my family and I don't cope at all well with losing them. I lost my silver tabby, Pippa, to a vehicle when she was 12 on 27.08.12 – almost 8 years ago. In all those years I would never let her stay out at night, but the one night I couldn't get her to come in, I wasn't well enough to stay up for her. Unable to sleep properly, I got up at 5am to call her in. She didn't come. I went back to bed but just knew something was wrong. I woke my husband up and we went out looking. I found her next door under my mum's hedge. She was still warm. She'd come running across the road when I called her trying to get home. I was devastated. I held her all day. I just couldn't put her down. The dress I was wearing that day is still covered in her fur – I can’t bring myself to clean it and it just hangs in my wardrobe unworn. She's buried at the top of my garden in the place we used to lay on the grass in the sun together.

    I still can't talk or write about her without crying. I miss her so much and feel so responsible for not having kept her safe. I wish I wasn't like this; it's actually quite embarrassing to admit I'm still caught up in the grief process. I was finally diagnosed with PTSD in 2018 after dealing with several other near-death experiences and am now receiving help. It's no joke, so Mo – please don't feel you are alone in feeling this way over just 'a pet'. Love is love - doesn't matter what it's for, and loss can have a profound and lasting effect especially when it comes out of the blue.

    I get immense joy being around animals – the only thing I don’t cope well with is spiders – but even then I go out of my way to save one if it’s in the house. I’ve had many pets over the years besides fish including dogs, rats, mice, hamsters, rabbits, guinea pigs… even snails! I have never been lucky enough to own my own horse, but have looked after many. But cats have a very special place in my heart. I've grown up with cats – to me a home isn’t a home without at least one cat in it.

    I was always a strong believer that cats should be allowed to roam free. I've changed my mind. There are too many cars on the roads, and even where I live, with fields to the horizon, the road outside my house is lethal because people drive too damned fast to avoid or slow down for anything running in front of them. Living in the countryside, I see dead animals on these roads every time I leave my house – deer, foxes, badgers, rats, voles, owls, pheasant, pigeons - it affects me very badly since Pippa’s death.

    Pippa wasn’t the first cat I've lost to a road, but she will be my last. After her death I felt compelled to do some research and was horrified by what I learned. According to a 2006 PetPlan analysis, 230,000 cats are killed every year on the roads. That's 630 cats a day. SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTY. I couldn't get my head around that number. And that's just the cats that are found and reported. Think how many crawl away to die, or disappear never to be found, or who's owner's don't report the incident like I didn’t because Pippa wasn’t insured for death. And that was back in 2006. There are many more cars on the roads now, and lockdown has apparently made things worse because the roads have been quieter so cats are being more inquisitive and roaming further; as things return to normal and cars return to the roads, the outcome for cats looks bleaker than it ever has before.

    Cats are the only domestic animals that are not required by UK law to be reported if run over. Many charities have been calling for years for it to become illegal for people to leave the scene of an accident if a cat is run over as it is for a dog. I personally came to the conclusion that it's not down to the law to change, or to expect drivers to change, but for me to change - and I have.

    I go to great lengths to make the pond and water safe for my Koi to live in, and I apply that same logic to my cats.

    I have gone to the same lengths to make sure the environment my cats live in will keep them out of harms way. They do not roam free but still enjoy an outdoor life because I have made my garden totally cat proof so they cannot get out over the fences. I've installed solid gates and grown tall hedges inside the fences all around my front garden, just in case they get into the front (which is very hard for them to do!), so that they cannot run out onto the road. I chose to have two Ragdolls (Milo & Mimi) after Pippa because they are known to have much less roaming instincts than other breeds and are more 'dog-like' in their desire to be around humans. I know it's not easy for every garden to be made cat-safe, and that it's cruel to keep cats indoors all the time without access to fresh air and sun, which leads to the million dollar question about having pets that are suitable for your environment and training cats to walk on harness.

    There are a good number of things you can do to keep cats safe in their gardens and many different types of cat containment systems, and I truly wish I'd known about them in time to have saved Pippa from the death that she experienced. After much research I installed a DIY Katzecure system round my garden, but when I refurbed I replaced this with something a lot less expensive and better looking! I have simple black downpipe over the top of my fences and I keep the tips of my cat's claws trimmed, so they cannot get purchase to climb a fence or get a grip on the top if they were to jump up. On one side of my garden I installed a double fence, so that the 'good' side was facing into my garden, in other words - no cant rails or posts for the cats to climb. The upshot is that I have a very nice looking fence all round that the cats can't get over. I have gates both side of my house to stop them getting into the front, and these are padlocked so no one can accidentally leave them open. I didn't allow the cats outside unaccompanied until they were about 5 years old, so they got used to coming when called, and I think this also curbed their desire to roam away from home. I did attempt to train them to harness but it wasn't a great success due mainly to the Ragdoll tendency to roll over on their backs all the time! This has worked to keep my cats safe, but other cats may need more extensive measures especially if they are used to free roaming - and that's where Katzecure may come in if you have little furry houdinis!

    The other benefit of keeping my cats from roaming is that they do not crap, catch birds, terrorise ponds or get into trouble in other people's gardens or houses, and this is also a very good thing, because there are many folk out there that do not like cats and consider them nothing but pests ... and I kind of understand that. Before my gates went up, a neighbour’s cat constantly used my gravel driveway as a litter tray. There were many times I cursed loudly whilst scraping poop off my shoes or carpets from another gravel covered surprise, and I know what it's like to be weeding a border and find a little cat parcel just under the surface. That's bad enough when it's your own cat!

    New Zealand and other countries, have laws to protect native wildlife against domestic cats that require cats to be kept in at night and owners risk fines for breaking such rules. If UK law is to change to recognise cats in the same way they do dogs, then we as owners should change the way we look after them. I treat my cats like dogs now - they are kept under my control at all times to the best of my ability, and I truly believe that's the only way to protect our cats. Microchipping and changing laws won’t stop a cat and a car meeting on a road. Only we can do that.

    Mo - I really hope this post helps you know that you are not alone in the grief you are feeling and my heart goes out to you with absolute sincerity. If you have other cats, or are thinking of getting another cat, I beg you to please think about how to keep them safe from the road. I still have some Katzecure brackets left from when I replaced mine; if you think you may wish to use this containment system for your own garden in the future, you are welcome to have them.

    Wendy

    Downpipe on Fencing 01.jpgSide Gate 01.JPG Side Gates 02.JPG


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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai SamuraiJack's Avatar
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    Thank you Wendy, i don't think i will ever get another, first it can't replace my Drizzt but most important is i don't want to go through it again, it is extremely painful, even though the vet told me what to expect it was 100 times more painful, i still remember his last breath, i have all his pics on my mobile in a folder but can not get the courage to see them or delete the folder, no one talks about Drizzt in my house when i'm there, i also have his fur rolled into 2 small balls of fluff taken from his grooming brush they are in a box in a draw with his name written on it so it don't get chucked away, thank you for sharing your experience and i am sorry for your loss.
    i now feel real bad because i should not have written that on smartin's post i did intent to hijack it, it just bought back memories, i hope he can forgive me, once again thank you.
    Human life is truly a short affair. It is better to live doing the things that you like Inazo Nitobe

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai SamuraiJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
    Thank you Wendy, i don't think i will ever get another, first it can't replace my Drizzt but most important is i don't want to go through it again, it is extremely painful, even though the vet told me what to expect it was 100 times more painful, i still remember his last breath, i have all his pics on my mobile in a folder but can not get the courage to see them or delete the folder, no one talks about Drizzt in my house when i'm there, i also have his fur rolled into 2 small balls of fluff taken from his grooming brush they are in a box in a draw with his name written on it so it don't get chucked away, thank you for sharing your experience and i am sorry for your loss.
    i now feel real bad because i should not have written that on smartin's post i did intent to hijack it, it just bought back memories, i hope he can forgive me, once again thank you.
    sorry another mistake on writing, i meant i did not intend to hijack it, lol it's old age i tell ya
    Human life is truly a short affair. It is better to live doing the things that you like Inazo Nitobe

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    Sorry to hear about your loss Wendy.

    Great insightful thread BTW.

    We've got 2 cats at the moment and I reckon one of them could escape from a high security prison and I've seen both of them jump 4ft up from a scratching post cat climbing frame thing to the top of a bureau and clear an even longer gap between 2 horizontal surfaces and that's without even trying.

    I think your pipe idea is a good one and so is keeping their claws trimmed as I've seen ours climbing up a 6ft + concrete fence post.

    Our youngest cat has a habit of creeping into the shed and then through into the garage whenever she gets a chance so I think a cat flap is going to have to be fitted on the garage wall and set it to out only as she gets shut in the garage on a regular basis now.

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    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
    i now feel real bad because i should not have written that on smartin's post i did intent to hijack it, it just bought back memories, i hope he can forgive me, once again thank you.
    Please don't for one minute feel bad about the comment you made on the other thread. It was not hijacking the conversation. If I had posted my reply above on the thread ... that's what could be considered hijacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
    ... i don't want to go through it again, it is extremely painful, even though the vet told me what to expect it was 100 times more painful, i still remember his last breath, i have all his pics on my mobile in a folder but can not get the courage to see them or delete the folder, no one talks about Drizzt in my house when i'm there, i also have his fur rolled into 2 small balls of fluff taken from his grooming brush they are in a box in a draw with his name written on it so it don't get chucked away, thank you for sharing your experience and i am sorry for your loss.
    What you went through with Drizzt is a very different experience to what I had with Pippa. She was already gone when I found her and besides a little bit of blood from her nose, she had no signs of injury hence why I was able to hold her all day.

    I hope I won't be too badly judged for admitting this, but I feel compelled to stop when I see dead or injured animals on a road and it's safe for me to do so. When they are dead I move them to the side or into a field or ditch so that they do not suffer the indignity of being driven over until nothing remains, and can safely become part of nature's cycle of life without risking the lives of other animals that find them. I have even had my husband get out of the car and do this for me when I wasn't well enough to do it myself, or the animal was too large for me to move. I feel that this in some way acknowledges the life they had rather than being just another insignificant victim of human transport. This is actually a service that is supposed to be run by councils, but in my experience it doesn't work and animals that I have reported are just left to rot.

    I have only ever had to deal with three cats, two who were passed and one that was injured very badly. Because of this, I know what it's like to be in a situation when you are dealing with an animal in great pain, suffering and fright. It is incredibly hard and the sights, sounds, smells and emotions stay with you a very long time. When that animal is one of your own that you dearly love, then this trauma is ramped up 1000 times. So you are not only dealing with grief Mo, but actual trauma.

    I really hope you have been able to get the counselling support the vet suggested. If not, please do. Don't let the grief drag on like I did to the point it becomes a real problem. It is as though it has re-wired my brain in a way that I now struggle terribly with anything to do with death and illness, and it's a long road back to undoing that damage. I can't imagine how awful it must be for you knowing that members of your household feel they must not talk about Drizzt around you, and that you cannot bring yourself to look at his photos. Remembering our passed loved ones is how we keep them alive with us, and being able to talk about them or look at their pictures is part of that. I fear that even just reading this post is enough to bring up more grief for you, but truthfully - from experience - I know that hiding from it is not the answer.

    If you are experiencing nightmares, flash backs and things that trigger feelings of anxiety or fear, or physical sensations such as pain, sweating, trembling, nausea in relation to Drizzt, then please be aware that these are actually symptoms of PTSD. I didn't realise this until I was diagnosed. People always associate PTSD with war or disasters, but it can manifest from any trauma and particularly one in which life and death play a role. Pippa was the catalyst for my decline, though there are a number of other contributing factors, but having accepted that PTSD doesn't just happen to 'heros', I'm finally on a path of recovery. It's not an easy one - and explains some of the anxiety in my posts when my fish are ill and dying - but at least I now understand why I'm like I am and that there are ways to heal.

    And part of that healing, is finally being able to talk about it - another reason I started this thread. I have hidden myself away for years, due in part to degenerative illnesses from my early 20s that make me house and often bed-bound, which are absolutely made worse by the PTSD. It's a waste of life to live like this, and I've had to really pull myself back into society - albeit via social media. This forum, with the exception of one reply I received, has been a big part of me coming back out of my shell . Perhaps I should thank the skin flukes for that, because without them I wouldn't have gotten up the courage to post on here in the first place!

    If you feel that PTSD may be something you are experiencing then you should be able to refer yourself via your GP to your first-line local mental health team for assessment and help. Every Local Health Authority is different, and some much better than others. I had to fight to get the help I needed after my diagnosis, but I'm glad I persevered as I am working towards EMDR now which I really hope will help. There are also a number of charities that specialise in pet grief. Just google "pet bereavement uk" and you'll get a good choice of free services you can call. I've used some in the past, and the people I spoke to were genuinely caring and understanding. It did help.

    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
    ...it can't replace my Drizzt
    Absolutely. Nothing ever could, nor should. Every pet holds its own place in our hearts. If we are lucky, our hearts expand to accommodate many. Milo and Mimi have not replaced Pippa, but they have brought me love, compainsionship and laughter and I just can't imagine my home without the sound of purring. I could happily do without all the fur everywhere mind you, but it's a small price to pay. I think purring should be on prescription for high blood pressure . My raggies have been part of my emotional healing process, and I can honestly say that the relief I feel knowing they are safe and not free roaming, compared to the anxiety I always had everytime my cats were out and about, is immense.

    My problem now is how I will deal with losing them when their time comes, and I have given a lot of thought to not having my own pets again, but rather fostering cats for my local rescue centre and in particular the pregnant females; they have so many and cannot cope with raising their kittens till they are ready to rehome. The idea of being able to care for these cats, and perhaps help rehabilitate some, so that they can find new homes appeals greatly to me. And for twenty odd years I've wanted to be a puppy walker for Guide Dogs, but my health has held me back from doing that, so perhaps that dream may one day come true. The fact I'm dealing with rapidly declining eye sight makes me even more appreciative of how important Guide Dogs are, so perhaps now is the time for me to do something to help those that have lost their sight. It's certainly a driving factor behind me taking steps to deal with the PTSD.

    And that's really what life is all about ... taking steps. There are times I’ve been so low, either physically or emotionally, I could not see how on earth I could get past that point. I’ve learned that the cliché of a single step at a time, both literally or metaphorically speaking, is correct. An inch, a foot, not necessarily in the right direction, but onward nonetheless, until eventually the present becomes the past and you’re somewhere else altogether, hopefully a better place.
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    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Great insightful thread BTW.
    Thank you . I really wanted to take this opportunity to reach out to Mo as I just felt pain coming through that post. Grief can be very underestimated and misunderstood. I also wanted to get folk thinking about how, as cat owners, we are the only ones who can stop the road carnage. I honestly hadn't grasped it as a concept till Pippa's death, which seems so daft. I've actually wanted to talk about this for years but never had the courage to do so. My post before this one will probably explain why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    We've got 2 cats at the moment and I reckon one of them could escape from a high security prison
    That's the trouble with cats... their intelligence, ingenuity and determination are both their appeal and their curse! I know it's nigh on impossible for some cats to be safely contained, especially when they never have been, but it is possible! I'm lucky that by the time I realised what I could do, I was starting over with kittens again, which made my task that much easier. There have still been times though that hubs and I have been running around like headless chickens looking under beds, in closets, in sheds for a missing furby, but only Mimi has gotten out into the front garden, and that was because she thought it was a good idea to see just how steep a slope the porch roof was if she hurled herself onto it from the tiny gap of an en-suite window. And she did it TWICE!!! Luckily my hedge defence works perfectly, so I could hear her crying from under it where she'd slunk to hide - possibly from the embarrassment of her very inelegant attempt at escape. Luckily, she's not done it since Milo is too much of a mummy's boy to want to leave home!
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    Well said Wendy it's very difficult to get it out of your system and it's good that you are trying your best as that's all you can do.

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    Sounds like something out of The Great Escape, I reckon your cat could be the reincarnation of Steve McQueen just becareful if you see her riding a motorbike round your back garden or bouncing a soft ball off the wall when you lock her in somewhere

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    We had a cat called Milo as well and it was named after a character from a film hence the selling of the name with a i not a y which is the traditional way of spelling it

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    That should be spelling not selling of the name. Predictive text does my head in

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    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    We had a cat called Milo as well and it was named after a character from a film hence the selling of the name with a i not a y which is the traditional way of spelling it
    Well, Milo and Mimi are the shortened versions of their Pedigree names which are typically daft in line with most 'registered' cat names. The breeder had a theme of using song or singer related names for all her cats so I'm sorry to say that Milo is actually Corcats Millenium (after Robbie Williams hit) and Mimi is Corcats Miami (after Will Smith). Bleeding awful Cats and Koi Logic Cats are gorgeous though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Sounds like something out of The Great Escape, I reckon your cat could be the reincarnation of Steve McQueen just becareful if you see her riding a motorbike round your back garden or bouncing a soft ball off the wall when you lock her in somewhere
    Hubs is motorbike mad so he'd have no problems with that, and Mimi is one of those cats that actually plays fetch. It's the cutest thing - screw up anything into a ball and throw it and she'll bring it right back to you. No training - she just did it from when she was a kitten. But I'll keep my eye open for a baseball mitt as that'll definitely spell trouble Cats and Koi Logic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Well, Milo and Mimi are the shortened versions of their Pedigree names which are typically daft in line with most 'registered' cat names. The breeder had a theme of using song or singer related names for all her cats so I'm sorry to say that Milo is actually Corcats Millenium (after Robbie Williams hit) and Mimi is Corcats Miami (after Will Smith). Bleeding awful Cats and Koi Logic Cats are gorgeous though!

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    Makes sense. Our 2 cats were originally named by the RSPCA rescue centre although we were told the first cat was a male but when the local vet did a 12 week kitten check it turns out he was a she lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Hubs is motorbike mad so he'd have no problems with that, and Mimi is one of those cats that actually plays fetch. It's the cutest thing - screw up anything into a ball and throw it and she'll bring it right back to you. No training - she just did it from when she was a kitten. But I'll keep my eye open for a baseball mitt as that'll definitely spell trouble Cats and Koi Logic

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    lol as long as they don't start to tunnel out

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    Our youngest cat worked out how to get out through the cat flap from the inside when it is set to let them come in from the outside only now we have to lock the cat flap fully once we know both are in.

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    Cats are quite amazing aren't they. I had a simply adorable ginger tabby called Cuthbert, who worked out how to knock the front door letter box with his nose to be let in. It was a very distinctive knock... naturally! We used to lift up the inside flap and say "what d'ya want" so that he'd do it again before we'd let him in cos it was just the sweetest thing to see.

    Which was fine ... till a new milkman took over our round and unfortunately rapped the letter box in exactly the same manner as the cat. It was all a bit embarrassing. He could never look me in the eye after that! Cats and Koi Logic

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    They definitely do some amazing things lol new postman - love it lol

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