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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Nisai EME101's Avatar
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    Question Koi Food - Weight vs Volume

    Hi

    Im sure someone knows the answer to this. Please Help!

    Ive been religiously (??!!) following a food regime based upon Daily weight.

    My standard mix is :-

    Saki Hikari - Medium Floating
    Saki-Hikari - Medium Sinking ( for the shyer / smaller folks)

    and occasionally dried Gammares.

    Now Ive realised that SH sinking is well over twice the weight by volume of Floating -- but same size.
    Dried Gammares is the equivalent of the 'feather' in this context.

    Yet all the advice is to feed based upon estimated weight and a corresponding weight of food..

    SO -- does SH sinking have more than twice the nutrients of Floating?
    SO -- should I soak my Gammares 1st !

    Please someone put me out of my misery as someone must know the answer !



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Logically if sinking is the same size but double the weight of floating it would suggest floating is partially made of air.

    Therefore yes, the sinking will have double the nutrients (food content) over floating.

    i.e you need to feed twice as much floating to get the same amount of food into the koi as you get with sinking.


    Like when you get chocolate Aero pots of dessert, mix it round and round to get the air out, and you end up with a tiny bit of chocolate at the bottom!

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Logically if sinking is the same size but double the weight of floating it would suggest floating is partially made of air.

    Therefore yes, the sinking will have double the nutrients (food content) over floating.

    i.e you need to feed twice as much floating to get the same amount of food into the koi as you get with sinking.


    Like when you get chocolate Aero pots of dessert, mix it round and round to get the air out, and you end up with a tiny bit of chocolate at the bottom!
    As completely obvious as that is . I'd never give it a thought!!! Well put rs

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  6. #4
    Member Rank = Nisai EME101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Logically if sinking is the same size but double the weight of floating it would suggest floating is partially made of air.

    Therefore yes, the sinking will have double the nutrients (food content) over floating.
    i.e you need to feed twice as much floating to get the same amount of food into the koi as you get with sinking.
    Like when you get chocolate Aero pots of dessert, mix it round and round to get the air out, and you end up with a tiny bit of chocolate at the bottom!
    Thank You
    Brilliant. I wish Id thought that out .. just a case of blending to remove air / break down fibre etc.
    So given that I suspect most "food-by-weight' is based upon floating food then I shall cut the sinking element by 2/3rds.

    I shall also move to sinking small , on the basis that they can all eat anything but the littlest need the attention of sinking food.



    Thanks Again

  7. #5
    sinking food is cold extruded; floating food is steam extruded which "puffs" it up to float.

    If you weigh the different types separately , then mix, the density of the individual pellets is irrelevant.

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  9. #6
    Member Rank = Nisai EME101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deejaysmi View Post
    sinking food is cold extruded; floating food is steam extruded which "puffs" it up to float.

    If you weigh the different types separately , then mix, the density of the individual pellets is irrelevant.
    Thanks for the technical info on how it is done.

    However, I don't follow your point on weighing separately.


    Lets say Im looking for 200g 'recomennended weight'.

    If I do 100G ( M) floating and 100G (M) sinking then it doesn't follow that there is the same amount of protein as in 200G (M) floating however the sink/ 'weight' is arrived at does it?

  10. #7
    yes it does.

    Assuming both the floating and sinking have the same percentage of protein for example 35%.

    100 grms of floating will contain 35 grms protein & 100 grms of sinking will contain 35 grms protein, giving 70 grms protein in total .
    200 grms floating will also contain 70 grms protein.

    If the protein % of the two foods is different then the results would be a bit different but not very significant in the scheme of things.

    Obviously when you weigh out the two foods in equal amounts the volume / number of pellets will be much greater for the floating food (I'm guessing 2-3x more volume).

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    Member Rank = Nisai EME101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deejaysmi View Post
    yes it does.

    Assuming both the floating and sinking have the same percentage of protein for example 35%.

    100 grms of floating will contain 35 grms protein & 100 grms of sinking will contain 35 grms protein, giving 70 grms protein in total .
    200 grms floating will also contain 70 grms protein.

    If the protein % of the two foods is different then the results would be a bit different but not very significant in the scheme of things.

    Obviously when you weigh out the two foods in equal amounts the volume / number of pellets will be much greater for the floating food (I'm guessing 2-3x more volume).
    Your fundamental assertion is that cold extrusion and steam extrusion produce different 'properties' ie sinking vs floating for the same volume and weight of basic ingredients. That is why I am struggling.

    You may very well be right ( Im not an engineer) but definitely NOT the same as (say) the Aero vs Chunky bar analogy mentioned earlier.

  13. #9
    Member Rank = Nisai EME101's Avatar
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    I should add Im not a chemist either !

    https://www.aquafeed.com/af-article/...OLD-EXTRUSION/

  14. #10
    I think it's the difference in pellet density that confuses. The key point is that 100 grms sinking or floating will contain exactly the same ingredients but you will be feeding 2-3 x as much volume of floating .

    Incidently if you watch Koi Diaries on Youtube Andy Daley made the mistake of forgetting about density. He switched from floating to sinking food and continued to feed the same VOLUME of food. This meant he was actually feeding 2-3 times the WEIGHT, obviously this resulted in a massive ammonia and nitrite spikes.

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  16. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Which is heavier a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers . Thing ain't it

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  17. #12
    Exactly.........

  18. #13
    Member Rank = Nisai EME101's Avatar
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    Ive just realised we are all in violent agreement. NOT the same volume. I apologise for confusing with lack of clarity
    Last edited by EME101; 26-06-2022 at 10:15 AM.

  19. #14
    If both foods have the same content but are just manufactured differently a 100g is 100g, volume is irrelevant.
    34,000L, 2xSpindrifters, Aqua Sieve2, Nexus300, 24in K1/bead, Momotaro Bakki, 17kwThermotec Inverter

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