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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i've actually thought if i have to drop the saki next year due to cost, going on the staple and gold...
    lower protein of 34% for older fish works better too...
    Used gold some of last year. Was canny enough like . Obviously the sh balance is better in my eyes but as a fall back its still better than osw and the likes

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i've actually thought if i have to drop the saki next year due to cost, going on the staple and gold...
    lower protein of 34% for older fish works better too...
    Hi Dave. I know one thing if I was heated, I wouldn't be able to afford to feed saki. My water temps this last couple of weeks has been up and down. Really poor, I 've had to strip the food right back. Some nights the temps have dropped to as low as 12 degrees. And the water temps have taken until mid afternoon to warm up again. So there as been very little interest to feed. So from 600 am to 16.00pm there's very little interest, so I have missed all them feeds. Yesterday and today the temps have held at 19 degrees. The difference it has made today is incredible, they have been climbing over one another, pushing others out of the way to get to the feed. The little 800ml food box is soon empty.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog1 View Post
    Hi Dave. I know one thing if I was heated, I wouldn't be able to afford to feed saki. My water temps this last couple of weeks has been up and down. Really poor, I 've had to strip the food right back. Some nights the temps have dropped to as low as 12 degrees. And the water temps have taken until mid afternoon to warm up again. So there as been very little interest to feed. So from 600 am to 16.00pm there's very little interest, so I have missed all them feeds. Yesterday and today the temps have held at 19 degrees. The difference it has made today is incredible, they have been climbing over one another, pushing others out of the way to get to the feed. The little 800ml food box is soon empty.
    they're making hay while the sun shines

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  7. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Weather has been really poor since late June. Mine was down to 19.8 last week but up to 21 yesterday afternoon I think it was. I have got bored of looking but its been mostly around 20-21 for most of July! Whats forecast here in Suffolk this week? 19-22 with rain all week again According to BBC it will be 23 on the 11th and 24 on the 12th but as they cannot generally get it right on the day I am not taking it serious. Before then it shows an even cooler week next week around 19 all week!

    Back to food, I am considering giving the FD food a go next season, I think the build up is around £165 for 15k which although still a lot, it certainly isn't as much as SH which is now more like £190 for growth!

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  9. #25
    Agree the weather has been pants. June was good, my pond hit 24c itís best ever. Since though Iíve been struggling to make 20c. Fish have been getting through 250-300g a day still though.

    Food wise, Iím still using and recommend aquasource growth! I decided to try mixing it 2-1 ratio with their colour food recently, and think it has made a good difference on the beni. Overall I think their food is very good and causes little mess. Can still get 10kg for less than £80.


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  11. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrucePondsteen View Post
    Agree the weather has been pants. June was good, my pond hit 24c itís best ever. Since though Iíve been struggling to make 20c. Fish have been getting through 250-300g a day still though.

    Food wise, Iím still using and recommend aquasource growth! I decided to try mixing it 2-1 ratio with their colour food recently, and think it has made a good difference on the beni. Overall I think their food is very good and causes little mess. Can still get 10kg for less than £80.


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    Have toyed with AS foods before and think that could be back in the running when I run out of SH .

    Have you tried the all season?

    Need to have a look at the ingredients to see if it's similar use to the sh balance

    Heard nowt but back things about wheatgerm so hoping it's not fun of that

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  13. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    the weather has been absolute rubbish july.
    missus has been complaining about not being able to use the hot tub...cheaper for me though
    the pond has been at 25C with the 0.5C hysteresis on the ASHP it goes up to 25.5C, then drops back to about 24.5C before starting up again the next day.

    feedwise next year since the fish will all be over 5 years old i'll be cutting back on the amount of food and frequency of feeding.
    i might still get saki but will probably stick to balance and colour only, or go with staple and gold hikari dependant on price per kg not price per bag as the hikari comes in 10kg sacks not 15kg...
    ...in an ideal world you would have a separate pond for fish tosai to sansai specifically for growing on with high feed rates.

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  15. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Have toyed with AS foods before and think that could be back in the running when I run out of SH .

    Have you tried the all season?

    Need to have a look at the ingredients to see if it's similar use to the sh balance

    Heard nowt but back things about wheatgerm so hoping it's not fun of that

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Yes I fed their ultimate all season from last September through to this May. Also great stuff. The fish like it, doesnít make much waste or stain the water (which I found with the queni koi kenko foods). What I like about the AS foods is they all use white fishmeal and are upfront about the ingredients which seem quality.


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  17. #29
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Report on the Hakari Gold .. yep that's like crack cocaine to the fish lol. Little effect on the water but will give a better report once the UVC has cleared it.

    The 'shy' Tancho simply launches itself at the mass of food with its mouth open lol. It's going to be a major pellet hoover if it carries on like that.

    Colours of the fish are remaining vivid which is good.
    14000l eco pond, my mutts: 2x Chargoi, 3x Doitsu, 1xTancho, 1xSanke, 1xKujaku, 1x Hi Utusri

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  19. #30
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Thinking forward to next year.. I may still go with the NTLabs Heath, the Wheatgerm but also blend in some Hakari Gold.


    NTLabs Health = 50.99 / 5Kg (37% protein fishmeal)
    NTLabs Wheatgerm = 50.25 / 5Kg (but usually only need 3Kg at 29.71 / 3Kg) (21% protein)
    Hakari Gold = 68.29 / 5Kg (35% protein fishmeal)
    Hikari Staple = 56.89 / 5Kg (34% protein fishmeal)
    Hikari Hi Growth = 32 / 2Kg (40% protein fishmeal)
    NTLabs Probiotic = 60.32 / 5Kg (49% protein fishmeal)


    ​Compare to the 'top' food at the moment:
    Saki-Hikari Balance = 97.99 / 5Kg (40% protein fishmeal)
    Saki-Hikari Colour = 110.29 / 5Kg (40% protein fishmeal)
    Saki-Hikari Growth = 112.29 / 5Kg (40% protein fishmeal)


    I'm conscious that koi can't really process more than about 40% and over 45% becomes a problem for their insides (same with less than 30% for prolonged periods)


    What I may do is blend depending on temperature, whereas before I simply used two foods:
    * Wheatgerm - keep for winter and blend in spring and autumn for energy.
    * A balance - keep for spring, summer and autumn
    * A high protein - keep for spring/summer once the water temps have risen
    * A colour enhancing food - keep for a longer period across spring/summer/autumn

    I'm leaning to the following at the moment for next year:
    * NTLabs Wheatgerm - winter, this has served me well it seems (21%).
    * NTLabs Health + Hikari Gold - this provides a basic good food (37%) and provides a boost with colour (35%)
    * Hikari Hi-Growth - a 2Kg bag can be added in spring/summer when the water temp is higher (40%)

    Given the increase in the number of mouths - 5 of them being youngsters.. they're going to chew through my normal 5Kg very quickly (they're chewing through my 3kg pack of Gold fast).
    14000l eco pond, my mutts: 2x Chargoi, 3x Doitsu, 1xTancho, 1xSanke, 1xKujaku, 1x Hi Utusri

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  21. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    I'm currently using SH Balance and will stick with it until water temp drops to around 14 degrees. After that Aqua Source All season, down to around 8 degrees. Any lower than that Aqua Source Wheatgerm, if the fish show an inclination to feed.

    Don't really want to be thinking of winter just yet though.
    7500 litres
    Filtreau combi with uv.
    Some koi

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  23. #32
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    still on saki growth balance and colour, with mealworms, melon, and lettuce as treats.

    i understand its hard to pay saki balance prices of £97.99 for 5kgs when 15kgs is only £159 delivered...
    especially when your fish are young and don't eat that much.

    ...but if you are only using 5kg a year i'd be happy to pay the 5kg saki prices... vs the 4 x 15kg bags of saki i've bought this year

    not sure i'd call NTlabs Health a fishmeal though...

    its the 5th ingredient behind soya meal, wheat flour, wheat, poultry meal,and then fish meal.
    probably a version of the coppens staple as ingredients are very similar, and the nutritional data.
    the NT labs pro biotic growth is coppens top koi, which has identical ingredients.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 19-08-2023 at 12:22 PM.

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  25. #33
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    not sure i'd call NTlabs Health a fishmeal though...
    Interesting - I was going on the interwebs ingredient list.. let me dig out the bucket and look at the ingredients..

    You're right.. missed that completely

    Hmm maybe a move away from NTlabs next year...
    14000l eco pond, my mutts: 2x Chargoi, 3x Doitsu, 1xTancho, 1xSanke, 1xKujaku, 1x Hi Utusri

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  27. #34
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    Interesting - I was going on the interwebs ingredient list.. let me dig out the bucket and look at the ingredients..

    You're right.. missed that completely

    Hmm maybe a move away from NTlabs next year...
    i know when i go on social media all everyone and his dog talks about is saki hikari, but it's not the be all and end all...

    and i've got no problem buying rebranded coppens pellets as 99.9% of uk pellets are... as long as the price is similar.
    i used to buy queni koi's Ultimate Koi, and Colour food's which are made by coppens,
    my fish liked it well enough, and it was less than half the price of saki hikari at the time,
    though not now @ £114.95 for 15kgs
    mind coppens is £99.95 too so they are all going up

    but the growth wasn't brilliant considering i was heating, and the colours weren't intense either...
    and i found the 3mm pellet too small and the 6mm a little bit too big for my liking, the 4.5mm saki is perfect for larger and smaller koi.

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  29. #35
    I love the Saki. I'm planning to pick up some cheap Aquasource all seasons if I can at the Newark show next week for the cooler weather. My fish ask for food at 6 degrees.

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  31. #36
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i know when i go on social media all everyone and his dog talks about is saki hikari, but it's not the be all and end all...

    and i've got no problem buying rebranded coppens pellets as 99.9% of uk pellets are... as long as the price is similar.
    i used to buy queni koi's Ultimate Koi, and Colour food's which are made by coppens,
    my fish liked it well enough, and it was less than half the price of saki hikari at the time,
    though not now @ £114.95 for 15kgs
    mind coppens is £99.95 too so they are all going up

    but the growth wasn't brilliant considering i was heating, and the colours weren't intense either...
    and i found the 3mm pellet too small and the 6mm a little bit too big for my liking, the 4.5mm saki is perfect for larger and smaller koi.
    To be honest the NTLabs was better than JPD -- sounds like they're both Coppens then but the NTLabs didn't turn the water brown, and leaves the fish looking decent - the JPD was utter ****e,
    14000l eco pond, my mutts: 2x Chargoi, 3x Doitsu, 1xTancho, 1xSanke, 1xKujaku, 1x Hi Utusri

  32. #37
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    I got some hakari wheatgerm (5kg!) to cover autumn, winter, spring. The remains of the gold are in the mix at the moment.

 

 
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