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  1. #7741
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Think the covers you have already built are more than adequate and the cost of those composite covers would pay for an ASHP plus a couple of years worth of electricity to run it!

    Admittedly I'd love to be able to afford to heat, but also without heat and the koi being dormant allows me to spend extra time with the family. Would defo cause problems if I neglected the wife and kids all winter as well as summer lol.
    Hi RS
    this is to box in my combi filter / electrics and pumps etc, at the moment its all exposed, all I have done is lagged the pipes outside and covered over the electrics with a plastic cover to protect from the rain but this all needs to be covered in, basically to have a large wooden frame made with composite panels on the front and both sides (rear wont need doing as this is off my house) with a hinged roof with a strip off rubber over hinges to stop water ingress using SSteel fittings / hydraulic arms to hold up the roof approx. 3.5m across x 1.5m deep and 1.3m high seems a crazy amount of money to have made bespoke, my 10x8ft shed did not cost as much lol...…I am with you ref DTF £1.20 a day heating costs appear a lot less than what I thought they would be, cheers Steve.

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  3. #7742
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Every one with 9o water feel lucky . I Must get some covers on

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Blimey Ajm that's chilly!! mad isn't it for the sake of a few hundred miles..... 50% colder water temp.

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  5. #7743
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    wow you southern lads are getting some great temps even unheated!
    reckon mine would be well into single digits already without the heater.
    we've had a few frosts already this year!


    Location: Bedworth
    max/min outside temp 1C - 5C
    pond is heated to 20C
    35mm polycarb covers.
    1KW heater was using 17 kWh a day prior to insulating the filters and pipes.
    now using about 12 kWh a day @ £0.13 /kWh day rate with about 50% of that on economy 7 @ £0.07 /kWh so currently about £1.20 a day
    Fish are very happy and i'm feeding them 3-4 times a day, plus some fresh mussel treats now and then.

    Hi DTF you have very spoilt fish i am going to see how this winter goes without heat, this is my first year as you know with build costs, fish costs etc unless I want a divorce cannot afford anymore now I might just about eeek out the costs to box in my pump etc but that's coming in at £1100 simply crazy.... cheers Steve

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  7. #7744
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Blimey Ajm that's chilly!! mad isn't it for the sake of a few hundred miles..... 50% colder water temp.
    Poor fish . This is the first year with this pond and should have had covers and lagging in place but with every thing else with the house they have been left to it I'll get things started this week to cover what I can and make the best of it for this winter with met year in mind. Had a inline heater but got scared working out the running cost but at 1.20 wish I had kept it but that set up is well insulated compared to mine think I would x50 on dtf s costs Haha

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  9. #7745
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    That's a LOT cheaper than I'd have thought. What type of heater is it and what gallonage is the pond?

    Pretty sure my kettle alone costs more than that a day!

    Pond at 9.4C today. Koi appetites now down significantly.
    It's an electro 1 kw I got for a good price only £100 on eBay less than a year old.
    20190912_163027.jpg

    The pond is only just over 1000 gallons, as it was only meant to be a water feature.
    after 20 years of vehemently resisting me having another koi pond my wife suddenly said "some fish would look nice in the 'water feature'..."

    I wasn't waiting around for her to change her mind, I had to hastily convert it into a koi pond.
    It will do until I can build it bigger and deeper next year.

    But I'll be looking to properly insulate the new pond,
    And reckon I'll still get away with a 1 kw heater.

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  11. #7746
    Pond is heated to 16 degrees

    Steaming under the polycarb covers.

    Just over 2000 gallon 2kw cloverleaf heater. No idea of the cost and I don't want to know either.

    Sent from my BBF100-1 using Tapatalk
    Built not bought!

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  13. #7747
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Beautiful . lucky fish mate

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  15. #7748
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Every one with 9o water feel lucky . I Must get some covers on

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    that's what i feared for my pond without heat...

    my last pond years ago was over 6 ft deep, unheated, and not covered.
    but suffered some losses due to low winter temps and spring start up.
    plus i used to hate seeing the fish huddled up on the bottom, un moving for months in the depths of a hard winter.

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  17. #7749
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Am panicking now like had them in a pop up vat in outhouse last winter toying with doing the same but more fish and bigger this year

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  19. #7750
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi RS
    this is to box in my combi filter / electrics and pumps etc, at the moment its all exposed, all I have done is lagged the pipes outside and covered over the electrics with a plastic cover to protect from the rain but this all needs to be covered in, basically to have a large wooden frame made with composite panels on the front and both sides (rear wont need doing as this is off my house) with a hinged roof with a strip off rubber over hinges to stop water ingress using SSteel fittings / hydraulic arms to hold up the roof approx. 3.5m across x 1.5m deep and 1.3m high seems a crazy amount of money to have made bespoke, my 10x8ft shed did not cost as much lol...…I am with you ref DTF £1.20 a day heating costs appear a lot less than what I thought they would be, cheers Steve.
    i think most of us here would 'heath robinson' something together, rather than shell out nearly 2k for a filter cover...

    can you just slap and tape some celotex around it?
    it's a doddle to cut with a carving knife, just score and snap like plaster board.

    heating is £1.20 a day atm with a 15-19C temperature differential.
    it's going to get a lot colder yet i fear, so will probably drop it 15Cish in December and lower it more if temps really plummet.

    i recently came out of a good fixed deal with scottish power, and had to shop around to get a good deal as they were asking for a big 40% increase in electricity costs.
    but 2 days after switching on U switch, i got an email with a limited time 'bespoke' deal fixed well into 2022 at my old kWh rates with a small increase in the standing charge of 12p per day, so i stayed with them.

    i saved more than enough to increase my monthlies by £40 so that should easily cover the winter heating at current consuption rates based on 12 months. and needing a lot less heat in the summer.

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  21. #7751
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Am panicking now like had them in a pop up vat in outhouse last winter toying with doing the same but more fish and bigger this year

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    covers make a big difference,
    the ground holds heat at depth all year round, thats one reason why the fish huddle at the bottom, +8C at 2 mtrs...?
    i did have a graph somewhere..... info is available online as it different in different areas...

    but covers help hold that heat in...

    the info was from a uk ground source heat pump companies web site

    The Daily pond temp thread-17158940-c431-44eb-a6e6-c8843398ed24-jpg



    plus met office ground temps at 30cm

    The Daily pond temp thread-jan-gif
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by davethefish1; 15-11-2019 at 12:11 AM.

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  23. #7752
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    My leccy is around 14p including vat.

    Worked out that a 3KW heater on 24 hours a day to heat 12,000 litres would cost £80 per week, £350 ish per month

    Don't know how many hours a day it would actually be on if heating to say 12C, but even at 12 hours a day it would be £40 per week.

    If only 6 hours a day was required then it would be in the affordable bracket!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  25. #7753
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    My leccy is around 14p including vat.

    Worked out that a 3KW heater on 24 hours a day to heat 12,000 litres would cost £80 per week, £350 ish per month

    Don't know how many hours a day it would actually be on if heating to say 12C, but even at 12 hours a day it would be £40 per week.

    If only 6 hours a day was required then it would be in the affordable bracket!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

    at 12,000 liters electric can get expensive...
    a lot depends on insulation and how good it is, i've seen a big saving just by using 50mm celotex on my filters both in ground one and those in the filter room and using 25mm lagging on all pipes.
    when i make the pond bigger next year i'll be looking at using 4" celotex on the walls and 2" on the floor, apart from gas exchange under the covers, i'll be looking to make a giant thermos lol!

    that was one reason i only got a 1kw heater... even if it runs non stop 24/7 for 6 months of the year it will only cost 2.70 a day. or £492 for 6 months spread over 12 monthy payments at £41 a month.
    i'll be looking long term to add a circuit to my central heating, gas at £0.03 per kw is a lot cheaper....
    Last edited by davethefish1; 15-11-2019 at 12:24 AM.

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  27. #7754
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Anyone know how many solar panels you would need to power a 3kw heater

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  29. #7755
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Anyone know how many solar panels you would need to power a 3kw heater
    In this country...in winter....
    A million...? Lol!

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  31. #7756
    South Norfolk

    Boy it’s been wet!!! & windy, the ground is now saturated, but still not as bad as the flooding further north from me. I will be visiting family next week, near the areas affected.
    The forecast is for some dry days, and getting slightly warmer, ie back into double figures?

    Out in the open it’s 9.4°c 72% RH in the shade it’s 7.5°c
    The Polytunnel is sitting closed up @ 11.1°c 86% RH & the water is 10.1°c still resisting the really cold nights? As I’m away ( & hopefully warming again) I will leave the koi on two feeds, until I return?

    Stay Lucky guys


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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  33. #7757
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Anyone know how many solar panels you would need to power a 3kw heater
    Martin,

    I have had solar panels for 8 years.

    There are a whole load of variables to consider however the maximum you will get out of a standard sized solar panel is 200 watts on a really sunny day. I have 20 on my roof so the theoretical maximum is 4KW instantaneous power which is the government maximum for a grant. On most sunny days I am producing around 20 KW over the whole day which drops dramatically in the winter and none when it is dark when you probably need it most. Right now at lunchtime in November I am producing 400 watts of instantaneous power. The cost of my full installation will pay for itself (on the scheme that I am on) in 9-10 years (which is around industry estimates) so could be regarded as average. And just to add in - at 20 watts per panel right now it would take 150 panels to power your 3kw heater.

    Solar power is great but for most people the power is being produced when they cannot use it i.e. they are at work or the beach in summer. Funnily enough I heard of someone who bought an electric car and were pleased when it came with a "free" solar panel, I had to point out that their car was at work with them when the panel could produce electricity.

    Kenny
    Last edited by Handy Kenny; 17-11-2019 at 02:50 PM.

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  35. #7758
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    covers make a big difference,
    the ground holds heat at depth all year round, thats one reason why the fish huddle at the bottom, +8C at 2 mtrs...?
    i did have a graph somewhere..... info is available online as it different in different areas...

    but covers help hold that heat in...

    the info was from a uk ground source heat pump companies web site

    The Daily pond temp thread-17158940-c431-44eb-a6e6-c8843398ed24-jpg



    plus met office ground temps at 30cm

    The Daily pond temp thread-jan-gif

    Thanks for this mate, really interesting.

    Wish I made my pond deeper!

    RE: Fish huddling at the bottom - Its a myth for Koi ponds because the water is constantly moving so the temp is equal at all depths. (Got that from Manky's website).

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  37. #7759
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Thanks for this mate, really interesting.

    Wish I made my pond deeper!

    RE: Fish huddling at the bottom - Its a myth for Koi ponds because the water is constantly moving so the temp is equal at all depths. (Got that from Manky's website).
    Tell me about depth...I've got to redig my pond next year...

    Agreed, the water stratification is very minimal almost non existant when it's being circulated.

    Though there is still some stratification, and temperature inversion when the water is below 5C else the pond would turn into a slush puppy instead of freezing at the surface...
    When it's cold I'd imagine the fish would go where they're most comfortable. And the warmth if not heated is radiating from the deepest part of the ground.

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  39. #7760
    Quote Originally Posted by dave_vr6 View Post
    Pond is heated to 16 degrees

    Steaming under the polycarb covers.

    Just over 2000 gallon 2kw cloverleaf heater. No idea of the cost and I don't want to know either.

    Sent from my BBF100-1 using Tapatalk
    Do you still feed regularly throughout the winter at that temp?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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