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Thread: ASHP Operating Temperatures
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18-12-2024, 07:33 PM #1
ASHP Operating Temperatures
Hi All ,
I`m contemplating getting an Air Source Heat Pump for the pond .
My plan was to run it mainly during spring and summer , to iron out the fluctuations - like we`ve had this year . But also to have the option of keeping the pond at a safe temperature during winter - maybe a minimum of 4 degrees . The main reason I dont want to heat continually during winter is that I`m not a fan of covering the pond and I realise heating would get very expensive without them .
However , I`ve just found out that the pumps I was looking at only operate at a water temperature of 7 degrees and above . My only other option would be to not run the heater during winter - but thats not really what I want .
Any ideas how I can get around this issue ?
Colin
2500 Gallon Fibreglass Pond
Draco Solum 16 , 400l Bio Chamber
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19-12-2024, 11:33 AM #2
one problem is the auto defrost cycle.
with a low pond water temperature it would take ages to defrost the coils when they ice up.
which can even happen at positive temperatures due to high atmospheric humidity.
this leads to the ASHP not being able to maintain the heat in a pond with the unit defrosting more than it is heating.
which then throws and error code and locks the unit out,
if it pulls heat out of the water to defrost at 4C the water in the feed line could drop below 0C and freeze...
7C isn't too bad even most thermotecs won't run below 8C...
its one reason i still have an elecro back up heater on my pond.
if theres a problem and the pond falls below 8C you can't heat it back up...Last edited by davethefish1; 19-12-2024 at 11:39 AM.
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19-12-2024, 12:17 PM #3
Thanks for that , Dave - much appreciated .
I really dont want to cover the pond , as I get a lot of pleasure , watching the fish during winter - especially during the milder spells , like weve just had . With this in mind , and given the costs , I dont think winter heating is going to be an option for me at the moment .
The question I need to consider now , is - will there be enough of a benefit in heating the pond during the warmer part of the year (possibly 8 months or so ) to justify the cost involved .
What do you think . Is it worth it ?Colin
2500 Gallon Fibreglass Pond
Draco Solum 16 , 400l Bio Chamber
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davethefish1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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19-12-2024, 09:25 PM #4
I suppose the question is why do you want to heat in the first place?
If it's to keep to the fish healthy through winter and into spring then heating when it's coldest is what you need.
But actually, if you are heating to get better growth then heating throughout spring summer and autumn rather than in winter would be beneficial to the fish as it'll extend the growing season. Plus it'll be cheaper to run in the milder temps so is win win really.
Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window
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19-12-2024, 10:06 PM #5
It would be pointless to discuss these issues without the habit of determining how much proper flesh gain has been achieved between the summer feeding period and late autumn.
Over 90% of us do not have permanent heating. The most common over-wintering scenario is complete starvation from the end of November until May the following spring.
If you can get an auto-generated translation, you'll see that the current water temperature is eight degrees Celsius.’
Most noteworthy is the type of KOI he has collected and the accumulated fleshiness from shoulder to back and tail tube prepared for it.
A Japanese koi pond and garden in a private house, Hiroshima, Japan
In recent years (since the 1990's?), refined KOIs are only in good shape if the water temperature remains above 25°C for a period of time and if intensive feeding takes place. They can then be either heated or unheated during the winter.Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 19-12-2024 at 10:54 PM.
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19-12-2024, 10:27 PM #6
Thanks guys .
My main reason for heating would be to flatten out the temperature fluctuations during spring and summer . We got such big swings during our so called summer , this year and I`m sure it had a negative effect on the fish . I only fed half of what I`d normally feed , this year and the fish rarely looked as active as they should . I`m pretty sure a lot of this was down to temperature and think a more stable environment would be a benefit .Colin
2500 Gallon Fibreglass Pond
Draco Solum 16 , 400l Bio Chamber
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19-12-2024, 10:45 PM #7
Or, if you do not want to encounter such problems, you can continue to collect and keep only ASAGI and CHAGOI etc, which remain wildness.
This may be the case with the carp that live in the natural lakes there, or with the Israeli that are shipped without selection.
In that case, it would be fine to apply the logic of natural behaviour moulded by millenia of natural selection, which some professor has suggested.
A small number of Japanese breeds, such as IPPINYA and KOI NO YOHEI, are known for their breeding policy of retaining wild blood, so collecting such KOI is also an option.
They have the same water temperature of 8 degrees Celsius.
Their KOI are as I remember them from when I was still a child, with the ability to swim and digest actively in low water temperatures.
So what characteristics of KOI do you own? You need to be able to understand the behaviour and digestive status of the KOI while feeding what kind of KOI you want to collect.
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20-12-2024, 01:07 PM #8
The way i look at heating is what benefits the fish.
they are so much happier holding a minimum temperature.
in spring, summer, and autumn it flattens the swings in temperature that can have a big effect on feeding.
when i swapped my filters out this autumn and had no heating for a few days, the temp dropped 4C and quickly killed thier appetite.
the big advantage of heating in winter is to maintain biological filter maturity, and keep the koi's immune system operating.
leads to no ammonia and less health problems in spring, and you can quickly increase feeding.
I hold 16C over winter now with an ASHP, and the fish love it.
when i was using an elecro mains heater it was too expensive and dropped down to 10C
currently i'm still at 18C and the fish are ravenous but not being highly fed. and i do reduce feeding to a low level them for a while when i first take the covers off in march.
but having a window makes covering not so bad,
they are always up at the glass wagging thier tails when they are hungry and i walk pastLast edited by davethefish1; 20-12-2024 at 01:10 PM.
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20-12-2024, 02:06 PM #9
Cheers Dave .
I think I`ll probably get the pump and see how it goes over the spring and summer (That`ll give my Mrs time to get used to the extra cost - as she pays the bill) .
Incidentally , I spoke to a local dealer and he reckons the new Crystal Spark pumps will fire up at low temperatures , although they cant be controlled below 7 degrees . Most of the other big brands wont do this . That would at least give me an option to put some heat in the pond if it gets really cold . I did speak to the suppliers to ask if it would be possible to run it off a seperate thermostat , but they were non-comital .
Thanks againColin
2500 Gallon Fibreglass Pond
Draco Solum 16 , 400l Bio Chamber
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21-12-2024, 11:17 AM #10
Heating Vs covers. I had a bunch of 500w Chinese stainless heaters in the pond last year with a heat controller set to 4.5. it worked very well. However it is a pretty expensive way to do it. It's equivalent to boiling the kettle constantly. So I put that set up on a timer, hour on hour off to save costs. Not ideal but it worked.
This year, with covers on. I haven't dropped below 7. I haven't even bothered putting the heaters in the pond.
Horses for courses, but I'm sticking with the covers. The fish appear at the window if they're hungry.2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.
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21-12-2024, 01:39 PM #11
Thank you.
We are all working hard to ensure that the appropriate weight gain can be determined by appearance.
The reason they have outperformed us in South East Asia in recent years is that their water temperatures are naturally high, above 25°C, making them ideal for feeding and matching the characteristics of recent Nishikigoi developed through crossbreeding in recent years.
Excellent physique, finished in the Philippines
Our HINPYOKAI season began in October and has just recently ended.
We always say that the criteria for judging are body, quality and pattern, in that order, but as you can see, the competitions held at various venues have been very competitive in terms of feeding results.
The battle of how to put fleshiness from the shoulders to the back?
Examples where aggressive feeding at inappropriate water temperatures seems to have resulted in unwanted fat on the chest and lower body and an upward warping of the lateral line.
Despite their original excellence, they do not match the characteristics of Nishikigoi in recent years.
Only very recently have we started to see a smattering of Europeans achieving a similar physique to the one we are aiming for.
Holland (NVN) Koi Show 2024 - Grand Champion Kohaku
However, we usually complete it in late autumn, in accordance with the season, and it is not clear what kind of water temperature control and feeding achieved this in early September.
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21-12-2024, 02:38 PM #12
You are thanking an AI bot Naoki. They are getting trickier to spot.
2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.
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