Thread: Confused sleeping disease?

Hi all
didnt want to hijack the other thread as my problem is a bit different
I have a small gin rin Showa just over a year old has not grown a cm in that time
the others I bought the same time have doubled in size
i had a fluke problem about a month ago and the little Showa had the most flukes
all clear now
my problem is the Showa on occasions looks like it’s dead on the bottom but if I move him he returns to normal?
he feeds well with the others
i have scraped but can’t find anything
I have now put him in the quarantine tank because thought the mad temperature fluctuations at the moment may be the problem
but He’s still doing it after a week at higher temps
it looks like he’s asleep then I wake him and he’s fine
he also looks healthy no heavy mucus or fungus
never come across this before
thoughts please

Does the fish sit on the bottom with its pectoral fins splayed out but "wakes up" if there is food about or if prodded?

When it swims is it lacking in the usual grace (for want of a better word) with a lot of side to side motion at the head end as well as the tail? Like it it struggling to force itself through particularly thick

If so I've had this twice over the years and it was put down to a weak fish with some internal problem or a previously healthy fish that had developed one. With the swimming style that I have described I think it is a swim bladder problem where the fish water?has to put effort into travelling vertically as well as horizontally because it's buoyancy is failing.

If it swims normally but only when woken up I'd guess at a lack of energy caused by gill damage or poorly developed gills. Bit like a human with advanced COPD.

Thanks for reply Phil
if I prod him he swims perfectly normal
this has been going on for about 3 months now
to be honest when I first found him I’d have given him a day to live
when he’s swimming and feeding he’s one of the first up
tend to agree must have an internal problem
when he’s playing dead he’s normally upside down on bottom or drifting in the flow
been through most problems over the years but this one’s stumped me

If only one KOI has the condition, it is probably not sleeping disease.
If it is a sleeping disease, all non-immune KOIs are usually affected.
The situation thus becomes terrible.

koi sleeping disease

This viral disease has been reported in Japan, the Philippines and South-East Asia, and in the year before last it was confirmed that it had occurred in a shop in Michigan, USA.

And yet, we have not seen any reports of disease in the UK or other parts of Europe.
One theory I have heard is that differences in water quality affect them.
Is this really possible?

A quick look at CARP EDEMA VIRUS DISEASE (CEVD), the source of those diseases, shows that although the virus itself is present, cases of the disease are limited to some countries in the former Yugoslavia, such as Serbia.

If anyone has knowledge of the relationship between water quality and disease incidence in Europe and the UK, I would like to hear their views.

Thanks for the information
can rule that out then
think I’ll just leave it in the quarantine tank now and let whatever’s going on run it’s course
dont think it’s getting over it and not happy having it in my main pond just in case
thanks for the replies

It's probably best to keep it out of the pond.

Years ago I learnt the hard way not to let sentiment get in the way of making the right decision for the whole pond.

I had a weak fish that I was determined to save. It eventually developed swim bladder problems and got weaker and at this point I should have euthanised it but I carried on and it became a "Typhoid Mary" for every parasite going.

I had constant parasite battles and lost a few of the other fish that might have stayed healthy if the parasite numbers coming off of Mary weren't so high.

Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi

If only one KOI has the condition, it is probably not sleeping disease.
If it is a sleeping disease, all non-immune KOIs are usually affected.
The situation thus becomes terrible.

koi sleeping disease

This viral disease has been reported in Japan, the Philippines and South-East Asia, and in the year before last it was confirmed that it had occurred in a shop in Michigan, USA.

And yet, we have not seen any reports of disease in the UK or other parts of Europe.
One theory I have heard is that differences in water quality affect them.
Is this really possible?

A quick look at CARP EDEMA VIRUS DISEASE (CEVD), the source of those diseases, shows that although the virus itself is present, cases of the disease are limited to some countries in the former Yugoslavia, such as Serbia.

If anyone has knowledge of the relationship between water quality and disease incidence in Europe and the UK, I would like to hear their views.

As far as I understand it, almost all Koi go through sleeping sickness, only that it is rarer in European Countries because we import most of our Koi, and they have already been through the "process".

I've seen numurous cases where British bred Koi go through sleeping sickness, my own home bred Koi have been through it, and I'm well aware of young Tosai going through it during the quarantine phase at the importing dealers.

In my personal experience of it, the Koi were not making any attempt to feed, they were just floating around in the water current on their sides looking poorly and made very little effort to fight it.

However someone recently sent me a video of a Koi they believed was going through sleeping sickness and that Koi was on its side and trying to fight it, but ended up going round in circles till it gave up. I've not seen that in sleeping sickness before so cannot confirm whether it was a genuine case.

Have a read of this, the description of which matches what I've witnessed in my own UK bred Koi:

CEV