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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai ianoak999's Avatar
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    Mixing Israli koi with Japanese

    I have been contacted by a late friends wife who has only just told me he had a koi pond, she has covered the pond over with a tarpaulin.
    But she wants to sell the koi on, 1 I explained its the wrong time of year to move them. 2 I said you wont get much for them as they are not worth a lot to someone else.
    3 She then told me where they purchased the koi from and I happen to know they only sell Israli koi, so I explained that I was led to believe that you should not mix due to them being vaccinated for khv.
    Your comments I look forward to reading.

    Ian



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    I have and do trouble free . Freddyboy used to mix the 2 and also tench rudd ect no issues. Khv is flagged up as an issue may be I've been lucky or may be a lot that say DONT do it are possible koi snobs aswell

    Sure my reply will upset a few !

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  5. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ianoak999 View Post
    I have been contacted by a late friends wife who has only just told me he had a koi pond, she has covered the pond over with a tarpaulin.
    But she wants to sell the koi on, 1 I explained its the wrong time of year to move them. 2 I said you wont get much for them as they are not worth a lot to someone else.
    3 She then told me where they purchased the koi from and I happen to know they only sell Israli koi, so I explained that I was led to believe that you should not mix due to them being vaccinated for khv.
    Your comments I look forward to reading.

    Ian
    1) biologically speaking it's a stable time of year to be moving carp (including koi). They are poikilothermic so essentially slow down in colder temps. This means there is less liklihood of say oxygen, or lack of, causing issues. As long as both environments are similar (in terms of WQ and temp) there is minimal risk. However, as they'll be functioning at a reduced rate there is a risk that if they are introduced to an environment with, let's say parasites, that they won't be 'strong' enough to stand up.

    2) price is subjective. Jap fish fetch more than those from elsewhere. Its a simple supply and demand equation. Not many people will be looking to buy at this time of year

    3) carp are carp. If they are from Israel or Japan they are fundamental the same genetically. KHV can be devastating to carp and fish can carry without displaying outward signs of infection (although most show clear signs such as gill necrosis). Its largely tempreture dependant and is less "noticeable" as temps fall. Is there a risk they could carry and infection other fish? Yes, certainly. Is it likely? Not really. If they been OK and shown no clinical signs of infection over summer this risk is relatively low. There are now good fish coming from Israel. Would I buy one? Yes I would if it'd been through the right quarantine. As always Caveat emptor! You pays your money and you take your chance
    Remember koi don't know where there from. There isn't likely to be a Israel vs Japan war in your pond

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    I think the reason for the mix issue is because the Israeli koi have been vaccinated against KHV, whereas Japanese koi haven't been, so not sure if there's a chance the Jap koi can catch KHV from the Israeli koi that are possibly immune from KHV? I might be completely wrong so do your own research but I believe this is the reasoning behind people being reluctant to mix them. I would imagine if it is the case it has to be extremely unlikely as sure loads of people have mixed the two without even knowing.

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    As far as I have known, (only from what I've read). Koi can catch KHV from any Carp, whether the carrier is vaccinated or not. It does not matter a jot of difference whether you have Israeli fish or Japanese fish, in that respect.

    So where does this thing come from about KHV and Israeli carp? I've heard it myself. Is it because Israel breeders, don't test for KHV because they vaccinante? I have no idea?

    Or is it just nonsense from UK importers of Japanese fish?
    Last edited by Alburglar; 06-12-2023 at 11:23 PM.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  11. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi Ian you havnt been on here for a long time mate,hope your well.

    My opinion,no problem mixing them as I have 2 x Israeli koi and no probs at all.
    Though I wouldn't move koi at this time of year,
    A, netting will stress them.
    B,harder for them to settle into their new pond.
    C,their immune system is low so stress can take hold.
    Wait till spring when they are moving about isnt that long away and they wont need feeding etc in the mean time.

    As for the Khv, you can get it from a Jap import so no different with an Israeli one.

    As for price,you wont get much if anything for them,just my opinion Ian.
    John

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Strangely the best budo goromo I ever saw were from Israel and enormous, guy had 5 in his pond and nothing else, must’ve been 15,000 gallons and looked like a kidney bean shaped swimming pool
    13,243 gallons, Filtreau HF30ís K1 capacity of 1,400l, Bakki Shower, BHM and understanding wife

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  15. #8
    Member Rank = Nisai 118's Avatar
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    Shouldn't be a problem, if they all speak English..

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  17. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai Ianb's Avatar
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    I have mixed them over the years never had a problem, my understanding is that the Israel koi are vaccinated and stops them becoming sick with KHV but does not make them immune and could carry the virus, Japanese koi can be heat ramped during the quarantine period to expose any fish infected with the KHV virus.
    Please correct me if I am wrong about this

    .

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  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    That's how I understand it Ian.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    As well as the issue of KHV, it is interesting to learn about the measures taken to combat sleeping desease in different countries.
    As mentioned elsewhere, almost all KOI bred in Japan are intentionally exposed to infection as fry and shipped after gaining immunity.
    ※This means that immunisation against sleeping deaase is inevitable in Japan and South-East Asia,

    However, we have not heard of any particular problems occurring even if they are mixed with KOI bred in Britain.
    I have also heard that there seems to be a difference in sleeping sickness infection depending on the water quality in each country, but what do you think?

    There does not seem to be much talk in the UK or Europe about sleeping desease, but there is some mention of Carp Edema Virus Disease, or CEVD. Do these only occur in farmed carp and are they unrelated to ornamental KOI?

 

 

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