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Thread: Keeping koi

  1. #1

    Keeping koi

    So this is my first time keeping koi after around 10 years of observing and following all types of koi ponds, lakes etc. i want to enter this with the best intentions and hope to make sure it’s more about the welfare of the fish and it’s health. Am I right in thinking if I have say a 3000 gallon pond with great filtration and keep things to 3/4 medium koi making sure water is optimal. The koi will not come into such troubles as fluke and costia or any other issue. Or is having an infection part i parcel of owning koi?


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  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    You could have the best set up in the world, and still get parasites/infections. The only way to minimise it would be to have your own quarantine set up and put the koi you buy in there first for months with regular scrapes checking for any signs of parasites, including sedating to get gill scrapes for gill flukes and then once you have had them in there for a while parasite free could you then move them into the main pond.

    Unfortunately I would imagine for most people like myself this is not possible as having a pond in the first place often is space/money and time consuming enough without running a QT every time you want to add fish to the pond. I have a couple of koi flashing now and the last 3-4 sets of scrapes I have done have all been clear, the only thing left is sedate and do gill scrapes although I haven't actually scraped this year as not been physically able to and now the fish are otherwise happy. It's always the same fish flashing which seems to be the same 3 males which is odd.

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    You could have the best set up in the world, and still get parasites/infections. The only way to minimise it would be to have your own quarantine set up and put the koi you buy in there first for months with regular scrapes checking for any signs of parasites, including sedating to get gill scrapes for gill flukes and then once you have had them in there for a while parasite free could you then move them into the main pond.

    Unfortunately I would imagine for most people like myself this is not possible as having a pond in the first place often is space/money and time consuming enough without running a QT every time you want to add fish to the pond. I have a couple of koi flashing now and the last 3-4 sets of scrapes I have done have all been clear, the only thing left is sedate and do gill scrapes although I haven't actually scraped this year as not been physically able to and now the fish are otherwise happy. It's always the same fish flashing which seems to be the same 3 males which is odd.
    Sorry I totally missed this reply. Thank you for the detailed breakdown, it seems quarantine is the way to go but yes 2 ponds is going to get expensive. I do not think I’m ever going to get to this level of commitment but I suppose you never know which way and now into the hobby you can get. My plan is to try and pick 4-5 koi from the same breeder at the same time and hopefully grow them on for a few years before thinking of adding any more koi.


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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    As you know, many people are still suffering from flukes, but it seems to me that if they could be kept like us, with a proper feeding period and not disturbed too much during that time, it would reduce the damage to a considerable number...

    As long as we continue with our seasonal keeping policy, which is the opposite of ours, with KOI replacements, auctions and shows concentrated at a time when the members of each pond are finally fixed and their immunity is increasing due to their interaction with each other in an upward direction, we honestly cannot foresee a future where we can find a solution.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    As you know, many people are still suffering from flukes, but it seems to me that if they could be kept like us, with a proper feeding period and not disturbed too much during that time, it would reduce the damage to a considerable number...

    As long as we continue with our seasonal keeping policy, which is the opposite of ours, with KOI replacements, auctions and shows concentrated at a time when the members of each pond are finally fixed and their immunity is increasing due to their interaction with each other in an upward direction, we honestly cannot foresee a future where we can find a solution.
    Thanks for the reply Naoki, I’m interested in how you guys in Japan do things differently. Would you mind explaining the main differences and the what you feel are the benefits to how you setup and maintain koi ponds please?


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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    As you know, many people are still suffering from flukes, but it seems to me that if they could be kept like us, with a proper feeding period and not disturbed too much during that time, it would reduce the damage to a considerable number...

    As long as we continue with our seasonal keeping policy, which is the opposite of ours, with KOI replacements, auctions and shows concentrated at a time when the members of each pond are finally fixed and their immunity is increasing due to their interaction with each other in an upward direction, we honestly cannot foresee a future where we can find a solution.
    I have tried this method with no difference in results. Intensely feeding all summer, minimal or no feeding in winter and still the spring issues arise.

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    If growth is encouraged, which leads to increased strength and immunity building, and these are reflected in annual rearing, it should not be so easy to suffer from protozoan-derived parasites.

    It has been difficult to get a real sense of rapid growth and physique building there because there have not been many opportunities to see it, but only recently have we seen some examples, so let's take a look at some of them.

    BEFORE
    AFTER
    This is an attempt by a fast-growing and well-known wholeseller.


    This was an amateur enthusiast's attempt, and although the original appearance could not be confirmed, it is thought to have been a small TOSAI until recently, which has also grown in a short period of time.

    All of these KOIs are likely to have doubled in length during the winter months due to the appropriate water temperature and extreme feeding, but what is more important to notice is the flesh from their shoulders to their backs that accompanies the growth process. In addition to their thick waist, their vitality gives them the appearance of having a good basic physical fitness.

    I don't want to present them here in contrast, but I still see well-known dealers and other European contributors submitting incredibly skinny KOIs. I would like you to get into the habit of recognising and sensing what a KOI with basic fitness looks like and what it does not look like.

    ※It is easiest to understand if you have the opportunity to actually hold it in your hands.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 24-06-2023 at 06:29 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Basically we carry out such a process in the summer period because the water temperature above 25 degrees Celsius, which they are supposed to have fulfilled, can be covered by the natural water temperature during that period.

    Here is an example of a SHOWA that was a small TOSAI in May, but gained size in September of the same year after a full feeding period of about four months.

    I know you are always interested in Japanese breeders but to give you an idea of the daily life of these common hobbyists, this is mid-July, in the middle of the full summer feeding period.
    These KOIs are kept in tame conditions so that they can concentrate solely on feeding, in imitation of breeders' mud-pond rearing.
    ※Of course, they are not disturbed until harvest time in autumn, they are not netted and scooped in a bowl.

    Particular attention should be paid to the fact that the flesh from the shoulders to the back is beginning to toughen up.
    コンテスト2020.jpg
    These are pictures from the launch of our GROW and SHOW event, where everyone competed with the common goal of doubling the size of TOSAI, and in doing so, they strengthened their physical strength and increased their immunity.

    How do we apply these everyday things that we take for granted to your way of doing things? But at least...
    ● Some concentrated periods of time and no habit of extreme feeding. (Water temperature should be above 25 degrees Celsius)
    ●It is normal practice to move them frequently and to buy and sell them during what corresponds to our feeding periods.

    Therefore, even with frequent PP treatment, immunocompromised KOI are prone to various problems.

    >>I have tried this method with no difference in results.
    >>Intensely feeding all summer, minimal or no feeding in winter and still the spring issues arise
    It is unclear to what extent Intensely is meant, but feeding to the extreme will result in this body shape.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 26-06-2023 at 02:17 PM.

 

 

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