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Thread: Food help

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Food help

    Hi everyone,

    looking for a 50/50 sinking and floating pellet..... 5 or 6mm preferably, all season..... use to use Aquasource feed but their only 50/50 all season food is now called balance plus which they only do in 3.5/4mm pellet size, i have used this prior and it contains some very small pellet indeed which the big fish lose straight out of their gills..... they do not do any other 50/50 food type apart from hi growth which is for 16c+ i have looked at most manufacturers but cannot see anything that fits my needs, do you guys know of anything i have missed, i think Saki might do something but the info on their feed is not very clear......
    thanks Steve.


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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Saki do a sinking balance if that's any good to you?

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    I recently visited the UK for the first time in a long time - what do you think of Weetabix as a KOI feed? I know that in the past breeders used to cook and feed barley. There seems to be a slight sugar content, but... How does that sound, especially before the move to high-protein feeds in the spring?

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    They go soggy when you throw them in the water and you have to make sure no one fish eats three of them, it’s a nightmare
    13,243 gallons, Filtreau HF30ís K1 capacity of 1,400l, Bakki Shower, BHM and understanding wife

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi everyone,

    looking for a 50/50 sinking and floating pellet..... 5 or 6mm preferably, all season..... use to use Aquasource feed but their only 50/50 all season food is now called balance plus which they only do in 3.5/4mm pellet size, i have used this prior and it contains some very small pellet indeed which the big fish lose straight out of their gills..... they do not do any other 50/50 food type apart from hi growth which is for 16c+ i have looked at most manufacturers but cannot see anything that fits my needs, do you guys know of anything i have missed, i think Saki might do something but the info on their feed is not very clear......
    thanks Steve.

    what temperature are you at mate?
    and any reason you need to have 50% sinking food?

    i thought long and hard about using sinking food,
    but from the pro's and con's it's main use seems to be if you are below 8C and they are on the bottom,
    or feeding maximum amounts of food in summer as they can eat faster and more naturally off the bottom.

    i have a sanke that wouldn't feed off the top, and was a bit reclusive so i used to feed a small percentage of sinking wheatgerm for him.
    but after i stopped feeding sinking food, he eventually started to feed off the surface, and now mixes with the other fish better as well...

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    I recently visited the UK for the first time in a long time - what do you think of Weetabix as a KOI feed? I know that in the past breeders used to cook and feed barley. There seems to be a slight sugar content, but... How does that sound, especially before the move to high-protein feeds in the spring?
    weetabix is ok but the fish have a hell of a time with the bowl and spoon


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,

    holding pond at 12c..

    due to mixture of size and age and a few shy fish i prefer some sinking food as these fish eat quite well off the bottom, the larger fish just barge the smaller fish out of the way and hog it all, i did try for over two weeks but the shy and smaller fish will not take off the surface..... Aquasource did do a larger pellet in the 50/50 range but now only the hi growth has the med to large pellet, i like the balance plus food it has done my fish well but pellets are too small for the bigger fish, guess i will just have to buy some 6mm floating pellet from elsewhere and mix it in....cheers Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    I recently visited the UK for the first time in a long time - what do you think of Weetabix as a KOI feed? I know that in the past breeders used to cook and feed barley. There seems to be a slight sugar content, but... How does that sound, especially before the move to high-protein feeds in the spring?

    I certainly would advise not to feed Weetabix to koi because they are very high in carbohydrates (69%).

    Carbohydrates are very important in the diets of many terrestrial mammals and they have evolved the ability to produce insulin which allows glucose and sugars to be transferred from the digestive system and bloodstream to the individual cells that can use them.

    Since fish have evolved without much carbohydrates in their natural environment, insulin is still produced in the pancreas but in limited quantities so only a small amount of carbohydrates can be properly metabolised. Any excess carbohydrates are stored as sugars in the bloodstream and body fat because it is difficult for them to use it as energy. Blood sugar levels of fish fed on a diet containing a high level of carbohydrates are much higher than those of fish on a natural diet so excessive amounts of carbohydrates in a koiís diet makes them seriously hyperglycaemic (diabetic). In addition to being hyperglycaemic, koi will have unhealthy amounts of fatty deposits around their internal organs.

    General advise about carbohydrates is to only feed limited amounts of carbohydrate rich foods such as Cheerios or honey or garlic on brown bread (never white bread). Koi love them but, just like the cakes or sugary foods that we love, an occasional treat is ok but excessive consumption is very unhealthy.

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi Dave,

    holding pond at 12c..

    due to mixture of size and age and a few shy fish i prefer some sinking food as these fish eat quite well off the bottom, the larger fish just barge the smaller fish out of the way and hog it all, i did try for over two weeks but the shy and smaller fish will not take off the surface..... Aquasource did do a larger pellet in the 50/50 range but now only the hi growth has the med to large pellet, i like the balance plus food it has done my fish well but pellets are too small for the bigger fish, guess i will just have to buy some 6mm floating pellet from elsewhere and mix it in....cheers Steve
    fair enough if they are too small,
    i only cut feeding sinking food for the sanke when he had caught up a bit in size with the others
    he's still a timid fish, but at least swims with the others now.

    you might want to look at 'house of kata' as thats where a 'stikingly similar' food to aquasource is produced
    and they have a feed 'farm' in the netherlands where it looks like they produce it, and then resell it for other companies to rebrand

    https://www.houseofkata.com/en/product/feed/

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Thank you.
    I am not an expert and I try not to get too deep into the field, but it is true that in the field of fish farming, as you say, it is common for the carbohydrate content in feed to be around 40%, as indicated by these documents.
    https://www.pref.nagano.lg.jp/suisan...uments/01d.pdf
    https://agriknowledge.affrc.go.jp/RN/2010194006.pdf

    On the other hand, in the real world of producing super-jumbo KOI, such nutritional considerations are sometimes ignored, and food is often produced in a way that can be seen as PALATABILITY-first.
    https://youtu.be/CxgHEj0hKq0?t=1821
    https://youtu.be/lO1zSOmF5qQ?t=553
    https://youtu.be/pCmJfVjZ3RY?t=326

    In other words, only those who have endured the over-feeding are selected for the programme, which is priority-oriented and requires strong bloodlines and internal strength.
    It is also a fact that the feeding is managed on the understanding that there will be dropouts every year due to lack of endurance.
    KOIs as a result of pushing the limits of feeding

    And then there are hobbyists who admire and imitate them, as I once did.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOG...kMIyN&index=58
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 22-01-2023 at 10:51 PM.

  19. #11
    Since koi are able to produce some insulin, it follows that they can fully metabolise some carbohydrate so a feed containing 40% carbohydrate isn't too bad especially as, from the fish farmer's point of view that, any excess fat around internal organs will add bulk to the body shape that will appear to be growth and a high blood sugar won't be noticed at the point of sale.

    However, since typical koi foods already have a fairly high protein content, they shouldn't be given any high carbohydrate foods such as Weetabix or such treat foods as brown bread (never white bread!) as they will have more than sufficient carbohydrates in their normal food. Also, much to the disgust of my wife, koi shouldn't be given Cheerios either, although she sneaks some out when I'm not looking because she says they like them.
    Last edited by Manky Sanke; 23-01-2023 at 04:32 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    fair enough if they are too small,
    i only cut feeding sinking food for the sanke when he had caught up a bit in size with the others
    he's still a timid fish, but at least swims with the others now.

    you might want to look at 'house of kata' as thats where a 'stikingly similar' food to aquasource is produced
    and they have a feed 'farm' in the netherlands where it looks like they produce it, and then resell it for other companies to rebrand

    https://www.houseofkata.com/en/product/feed/
    Thanks Dave,
    thats interesting... i will have a a good look later,
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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,
    i had a good look and your right definately looks similar in marketing blurbs and product detail, there are some subtle differences but does appear too close not to be linked.... but i could be wrong
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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi Dave,
    i had a good look and your right definately looks similar in marketing blurbs and product detail, there are some subtle differences but does appear too close not to be linked.... but i could be wrong
    you can have a look at the size of thier premises here mate:

    https://goo.gl/maps/nQ1fEqqPKxAcMDvG6


  26. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    bit different to compared to aquasource's premises...

    https://goo.gl/maps/4VatMxdSEkqYMtGk8


 

 

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