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  1. #41
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    But why not feed intensely in summer like most UK hobbyists do anyway, then feed sparingly in winter when the koi still need to be fed instead of starving them? It makes zero sense! Most people who are interested in getting the best out of their koi DO feed heavily all summer, no one is purposely not feeding their koi all summer, they just continue to feed light amounts when required in winter as the fish need this energy, I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.

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  3. #42
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    But why not feed intensely in summer like most UK hobbyists do anyway, then feed sparingly in winter when the koi still need to be fed instead of starving them? It makes zero sense! Most people who are interested in getting the best out of their koi DO feed heavily all summer, no one is purposely not feeding their koi all summer, they just continue to feed light amounts when required in winter as the fish need this energy, I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.
    it isn't mate
    it's because he is egocentric in his beliefs, and will not accept any other perspective than his own.

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    In my father's time, by adding more groundwater, we were able to keep the water temperature around 12 degrees Celsius during the winter months, so we gave them a small amount once a day. When I started managing them, I didn't like to pour in more groundwater, so I introduced the option of simply interrupting their feeding as the water temperature would drop to around 10 degrees Celsius. Instead, I took the advice of others and restarted in spring as late as possible, around mid-May, when the water temperature was sufficiently high. Since adopting this approach, my KOI have been more demanding of food in mid-summer, and In late autumn, TSUYA and TERI increase as subcutaneous fat is stored. I have been practicing a more seasonal approach to KOI keeping, which is adopted by more advanced KOI keepers, and the symbols of this was HARIWAKE OGON, which was died 6 years ago at the age of over 50 years. It's true that in the UK at present you still have to move KOI in the middle of summer, or have events and buy more, so it may be difficult to adopt these methods, but it would be nice to see people practicing a little bit more emphasis on seasonality in their keeping. For this reason, I always advocate running the heating system in mid-summer. If people are able to accumulate enough nutrition through those, then keeping them like us is an option, isn't it?

    Oh, and the purpose of the thread here in the first place was about SAKIHIKARI feeding strategies, wasn't it? I have nothing against the quality of SAKIHIKARI. However, I do not think that the quality of the feed should be taken as a panacea, but rather that it should be a choice for each person to decide whether it is cost-effective to feed more food in the summer and whether the quality of the feed is better. I would think that a high quality feed would make a difference in the finishing stages, but in the mid-summer feeding season, I feel that a more nutritious and cheaper feed would be sufficient, provided it is not oxidized, such as silkworms.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 30-10-2022 at 06:31 PM.

  6. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Something i have noticed as i reduce the pond temperature into winter (currently at 18C still taking covers off in the day)
    is that there is a small amount of waste collecting on the floor over night, but usually gone my mid morning as the fish move around more.

    i have reduced the amount of food from about 350g at the end of summer, down to about 200g a day, and they are now on 100% balance.
    the only conclusion i can draw from that is, at less than 'optimal' temperatures for digestion, you will still get some waste from saki.
    or the saki 'germ' bacterial reduction of waste is less effective due to slowing the speed at which bacteria grow...?

    i'll be getting some multi season to feed during the coldest parts of winter, and see if that has the same result...

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  8. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    I noticed the same Dave, I took it as my prompt to reduce the amount I feed them. They are now getting 1-2 20g feeds a day usually first thing in the morning. I run the air all night then turn it off for the day and give them a feed at this time and stopped seeing crap on the bottom again.

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  10. #46
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    I noticed the same Dave, I took it as my prompt to reduce the amount I feed them. They are now getting 1-2 20g feeds a day usually first thing in the morning. I run the air all night then turn it off for the day and give them a feed at this time and stopped seeing crap on the bottom again.
    Yes mate, i think it just reinforces that to get high percentage of utilisation of food,
    you need the koi's metabolism to be working at peak efficiency whixh only happens around 25C.
    So trying to maximise growth below 20C they are probably crapping out 50% of what they are eating, still digested but not assimilated by the koi.

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  12. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Found the same a few weeks back when the temp dropped. I then dropped feeds to 3 x 30g of the Balance per day. Still finding a lot of waste, so changed over to Aqua Source All Season/Propolis and much less waste. Looking forward to next spring and getting them back on the Saki, as the results this year have been impressive.
    7500 litres
    Filtreau combi with uv.
    Some koi

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  14. #48
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    Found the same a few weeks back when the temp dropped. I then dropped feeds to 3 x 30g of the Balance per day. Still finding a lot of waste, so changed over to Aqua Source All Season/Propolis and much less waste. Looking forward to next spring and getting them back on the Saki, as the results this year have been impressive.
    Can't argue with that
    I don't think that feeding saki is so important in winter.
    More about feeding for health and consolidate the gains made in summer.
    That said, feeding multi season won't hurt
    I have noticed that the saki colour has made a massive difference to the beni on my fish,
    much more than any colour food I've fed before. It was always orangey and weak before but is now deep red especially the showa.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 13-11-2022 at 02:29 PM.

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  16. #49
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Same here, made a huge difference to my Showa. Prior to the colour feed it was very far from red, really washed out pale orange. Just a couple of weeks of the SH Colour did the trick.
    7500 litres
    Filtreau combi with uv.
    Some koi

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  18. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Yeah I can't argue with the colour food, I will definitely have 5k of that for 18-22 degrees again next year and then move onto the growth. To be honest I can't grumble with the results of how I used the Saki this year so have no need to change, the only thing that is trial and error was getting the right amount of food per feed so they didn't get diarrhoea which I found to be feeding around 20g every hour and a half for maximum feeding. I won't feed 30g per feed unless I feed every 2-3 hours, but it's all observation based

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  20. #51
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    this is the showa from march to october.



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  22. #52
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Lovely fish mate . And good to see side by sides . Need to get some colour next season like

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  24. #53
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Same as all you guys with similar results from the colour food.

    And loads of waste on pond floor each morning.

    I doubt its extra waste being produced from too much food, I think it is normal waste that just isn't getting stirred into the bottom drains due to reduced activity. It tends to go away within about 30 mins after the first feed when they start picking at the pond floor.

    Nice Showa development Dave.

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  26. #54
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Same as all you guys with similar results from the colour food.

    And loads of waste on pond floor each morning.

    I doubt its extra waste being produced from too much food, I think it is normal waste that just isn't getting stirred into the bottom drains due to reduced activity. It tends to go away within about 30 mins after the first feed when they start picking at the pond floor.

    Nice Showa development Dave.
    Thanks RS,

    just tripped over this video on YT,
    a day in the life of Mr Kentaro Saki San....
    not a bad life eh...?




    interesting that they feed 'paste' or plankton to a lot of thier koi, not just the fry, but even the bigger ones at times...






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