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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Airlift on a shower

    Is anyone actually using an airlift to run their shower ? how feasable is it ? i am struggling a bit on how i can retro fit airlifts into my current set up so to stop using pumps, currently i have 2 x 10k pumps that provide the following



    • Supplying water to the shower - 1 of the 10k pumps, running around 7500 lph
    • drawing dirty water to the drum via the BD pipework - both pumps provide the draw - approx 11k lph turnover
    • Supplying flow from the filter box to the ASHP (min 5000lph flow needed from memory through ASHP) and enough push to return the water back to the pond via two returns


    I have looked at many videos and recieved info previously, cutting core holes into the pond, all the additional unsightly pipework does concern me but if it works i might have to close my my eyes! how much draw can airlifts create to match or better the above flow rates, i worry about crap building up in the BD pipe work etc if the draw is not as good, will you end up using powerful air pumps that are as expensive to run as my pondxperts varios which are running at 120w combined currently..... only power in addition is 20w amalgam, 35w airpump for bio and aerated BD, ASHP pump when it comes on, so whole pond is 175w oh and i think the drum runs at 40w whilst idle and 180w when cleaning cycle again from memory......so 215w to run the whole pond between cleans and ASHP running.

    Steve


    2200 gallons,infinity window,BD
    Evolve 4k combi,amalgam UV
    2x20k pondxpert, Skimmer,
    shower,ASHP

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Airlifts don't really lift . They really drop in flow above water level and anything over 6inch is just to much for them . Or so am to believe

    I think most people run them either surface , just below or just above

    I may have miss understood but have done a fair bit of reading on them for my pond

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  4. #3
    Out of interest, there is a version of an airlift called a geyser pump that can lift water quite high and I saw a video of one lifting water over 6 metres (20 feet).

    However, the water from a geyser pump, even shorter ones, only comes out in spurts of a few litres at a time every few seconds which would be a pathetic flow rate for a shower so, as Johnathan said, ordinary airlifts don't really lift so they aren't any good for a shower.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    As above, air lifts only really work effectively (for what we want to achieve at least) as a gravity flow.

    As an example, I built an air lift that was about 1.7m long, out of 110mm waste pipe and put it in the corner of my pond. I put a filter sock on the outlet. Just to clear some fines that had built up.

    Just to give you an idea at how quickly the flow rate drops off with height, with the outlet of the airlift level with the pond water level, the water coming out was probably in the region of 15 - 20k lph, maybe even a bit more?

    But when I lifted the air lift up so the bottom of the outlet was about 25cm - 30cm above the pond water level, the flow dropped... To zero. The water in the pipe was bubbling away like a goodun but none of it came out of the outlet.

    So as you can see the flow drops off dramatically the higher you try and pump it. Hence why air lifts ideally need to flow water just above the water line, or better still, just below it.

    I understand that the narrower the pipework, and the more powerful the air pump, the higher above water level you can get it to flow. But even then, you'll probably reduce flow massively to the point, where as manky said, at best you'll have a small dribble over your shower.

    I did see a video where someone used a very small conventional pond pump and then boosted the flow with an airlift, but even then it was still was not much coming out - not enough for a shower filter.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    ok thanks guys for the replies...... i will forget that one then, i don't think i can do much else other than what i have done which was to change the 2 x 10k varios to pond xperts which at the time were the most cost efficient pumps available i could find...... i run the Amalagam UV 24/7 so will probably run it every other day....other than that cannot see how to save any more running costs, a solar installation for the pond and house would be viable but at £10k to £12,000 cannot go down that route at the moment....

    Does anyone have any idea how much a solar set up would cost to run the pond say 400w belt and braces....? thanks Steve.
    2200 gallons,infinity window,BD
    Evolve 4k combi,amalgam UV
    2x20k pondxpert, Skimmer,
    shower,ASHP

  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Do you have any other bio other than the shower?

    If so maybe just turn the shower off for winter? I have a DIY shower, but turned it off (more as I thought it was harbouring parasites, but it still saves me a few quid in electricity having it off). You can always turn it back on in the spring if needs be.

    Also do you need the Amalgam on at all? I had mine come on for 2 hours a day in the summer only because the water started to green up.

    But i have since turned it off completely and my water is still crystal clear. Maybe try having it off completely and if the water does start to go green, try having it only come on for an hour or two each day on a timer.

    In terms of Solar, I have a DIY array on the pond pergola that I install at the start of the summer. 2 x 365watt panels, 2 micro inverters, cabling, a meter, an isolator switch and a few other bits n bobs came to £1k. Although I did get labour for free as my father in law is an electrician.

    It's great. When the sun's out it not only covers my pond usage, but also a grow on in the garage (when the heater is not on) plus all the background usage in the house. When it's really sunny I'm often feeding into the grid (which unfortunately as it's a DIY installation, I don't get paid for, hence why I kept the array small).

    Even on overcast days like today it drops my household background usage i.e. when no high wattage appliance is on, from around 300watts to 100watts, so still helps reduce the bills.

    It's been in operation since early July and has produced 134kwh of energy (it actually produced more than that as the meter was not recording the energy produced for about three weeks, as the meter had been incorrectly wired)... So £37.52 of electricity, based on a rate of 28p per kWh for basically 2 summer months. Some of that I will have lost to the grid unpaid for, so let's say £30. Not bad eh.

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai pug's Avatar
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    A small solar setup is the way to go as you say in 4 months of running over the summer Apr 24th to Aug 24th i made a saving of £126.00 on 960w of panels and today it went over the £150.00. by the numbers i was thinking it would save me £200.00 a year but with 6 months still to go even with them being the dark months and only £50 to make i think i will be well over what i was working on and a five year pay back on the solar setup that came in at £950 Diy fit

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  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    thank you TWNS and Pug - very interesting and will be the way forward regarding solar, spring time i hope to invest in a set up..... ref bio i do have jap matting in my filtration so during winter with reduced feeding should be able to cope ok..... regarding UV i will turn it off and see what happens, probably 3 on 3 off or some regime similar, thanks guys
    2200 gallons,infinity window,BD
    Evolve 4k combi,amalgam UV
    2x20k pondxpert, Skimmer,
    shower,ASHP

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  15. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Steve, I think Twns runs his shower over his bio,so a sub pump in the bio up to shower back into bio.

    Then uplift from bio to pond.Maybe wrong
    You could allways have a 2 tier shower so less height and more power.

    I havnt run my UV for nearly 2 yrs and water still clear no green,though the pond has a solid roof over it.

    I have considered doing as Twns but didnt get round to it with parasite probs.
    John

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  17. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Steve, I think Twns runs his shower over his bio,so a sub pump in the bio up to shower back into bio.

    Then uplift from bio to pond.Maybe wrong
    You could allways have a 2 tier shower so less height and more power.

    I havnt run my UV for nearly 2 yrs and water still clear no green,though the pond has a solid roof over it.

    I have considered doing as Twns but didnt get round to it with parasite probs.
    That's right John. That's how mine is set up.

    For the shower (when it was still running) I simply dropped a vari pump in to my moving bed filter and connected the pump to the shower (which was sat on the bio filter) with some heavy duty pond hose.

    But now the shower is out of action, my pond only uses 58watts for the air pump for the moving bed and air lift, and 11watts standby usage from the drum. So around 70 watts.

    I imagine the ultimate low running set up would be a drum, followed by anoxic baskets which is then pumped back to the pond with an Airlift. That would only require the background drum usage plus an air pump rated to around 40 watts.



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  19. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    By the way, in terms of Solar, in another thread there was some concern about needing to inform the local distribution network provider.

    Well, I informed my local DNP, and was required to fill in a g98 form. I just filled the form in by finding an example online, submitted it and I got an email back saying it was all done. It was fairly straightforward.

    Tbh I think all they care about is that the inverter is g98 certified for use within the UK, that your power supply cable is capable of handling the max power output from the panels (with under 1kw system I have no worries there), and also how much the system could potentially feed into the local grid.

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  21. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    That's right John. That's how mine is set up.

    For the shower (when it was still running) I simply dropped a vari pump in to my moving bed filter and connected the pump to the shower (which was sat on the bio filter) with some heavy duty pond hose.

    But now the shower is out of action, my pond only uses 58watts for the air pump for the moving bed and air lift, and 11watts standby usage from the drum. So around 70 watts.

    I imagine the ultimate low running set up would be a drum, followed by anoxic baskets which is then pumped back to the pond with an Airlift. That would only require the background drum usage plus an air pump rated to around 40 watts.



    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    Still thinking about doing an uplift but will wait till spring now.
    What bio do you use twns?

    As my pond is only 4ft deep and raised I was thinking of digging a hole on the outside of the pond wall to increase the depth of the lift, then use either a 6 ins pipe or 4 ins to hold the water from the bio and insert another pipe inside it for the uplift,then core drill through the pond wall for return.
    Think that would work ok.
    John

  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Still thinking about doing an uplift but will wait till spring now.
    What bio do you use twns?

    As my pond is only 4ft deep and raised I was thinking of digging a hole on the outside of the pond wall to increase the depth of the lift, then use either a 6 ins pipe or 4 ins to hold the water from the bio and insert another pipe inside it for the uplift,then core drill through the pond wall for return.
    Think that would work ok.
    Sounds a lot like this one mate ??

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app


    I've dug down next to my filter to around 5ft deep and plan on a simple u bend with 4inch pipe for the airlift

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    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  23. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I think AJM's approach is simpler.

    If you try and put the airlift inside a bigger vessel (as I did) you then have the added challenge of getting the airlift through the sidewall of whatever the airlift sits in.

    Whereas a big u bend of 4" pipe is simpler to make. On the u bend rather than use two elbows, you could use one elbow and one swept T, with the end of the swept T blanked off. That way you create a little pocket for the air stone to sit in so it doesn't block the flow of water through the pipe.

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  25. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Twns I like that ideal mate ill Rob that one like Airlift on a shower

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    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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