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  1. #1

    Critique this potential purchase

    as the title says guys i am looking to purchase this and was thinking whats your thoughts



  2. #2
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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    If its this one then I say go for it, what a great koi at such a bargain price:






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  5. #4
    Lol no this one

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  6. #5
    30cm Kohaku

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    One of Adams. The white is lovely and white and the Beni looks good too. Body shape also nice, it is a nisai isn't it? If you are looking to get a kohaku soon it may be worth holding on just a touch longer as I believe it will not be long till Adam releases his tosai Kohaku from which you will have a lot more selection if you book a visit or a video call with him and then you can pick one out yourself. I done this before and it worked well for me, also Johnathan did this year (AJM) but obviously booking in a visit is the best way to pick some out if you are close enough to do so

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  10. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    My opinions / guesses:

    Nice big head.
    Body looks strong and broad but I couldn't tell you if it is conducive to putting on significant length.
    Shiroji looks really bright and clean.
    Tail stop is perfectly positioned.

    Can't make a call on the beni quality as the photo is a bit dull / lacking clarity.

    Pattern is a little bit unbalanced, not to my taste but obviously its your taste that counts.
    I would be asking, if the Koi stretched to 60cm+ and the beni stayed as it is now, would the left side of the koi (as you face it) look a little bit bare to you? Doesn't matter if you are not fussed, and matters less if the shiroji is of really high quality, and in that photo it does look clean and bright.

    Is it Tosai or Nisai?

    Head looks very white for a young fish - you would normally expect the head to still be a bit more yellowish which subsequently cleans up at 3 or 4 years old. I honestly don't know if there's anything to take from that, good or bad.

    Eyes look a bit sunken compared to what you normally see on young kohaku these days - many of them seem to have big googly eyes. Again, probably doesn't mean anything in reality.

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  12. #8
    Yes its was spawned 2020 from big parents, and at the money i keep thinking it could be a good fish in time

  13. #9
    also i think the only thing putting me off is the slight unbalance of Beni! but nice clean pecs and does the beni merge in time as marked on pic below ? making it a better pattern?

    Untitled adam.jpg

  14. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    It won't merge ( not impossible, just very unlikely).

    More likely to separate further.

    Remember the fish grows but the beni doesn't necessarily grow with it - as per the earlier white space comment.

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  16. #11
    Just to throw something in re the “merging.”

    It’s actually far more likely for beni like this to merge than to separate… sorry Steve. ��

    The old adage “it will split” was very much a dealer saying to encourage people to buy the koi in question. It could split, but you got more chance of the beni plates merging when the sashi and kiwa are this close. In this instance I think that would actually enhance the pattern.

    I’ve seen this in the flesh, the skin was very good if I remember, hence the nice translucent head.

    If the skin and body are good that’s where long term value for money lies… the pattern is all up to you. Horses and courses. Get it in the bowl and see it in the flesh, best way ����

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  18. #12
    Kung thats what in thought as well i think for the price its worth a go

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  20. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung-fu-koi View Post
    Just to throw something in re the “merging.”

    It’s actually far more likely for beni like this to merge than to separate… sorry Steve. ��

    The old adage “it will split” was very much a dealer saying to encourage people to buy the koi in question. It could split, but you got more chance of the beni plates merging when the sashi and kiwa are this close. In this instance I think that would actually enhance the pattern.

    I’ve seen this in the flesh, the skin was very good if I remember, hence the nice translucent head.

    If the skin and body are good that’s where long term value for money lies… the pattern is all up to you. Horses and courses. Get it in the bowl and see it in the flesh, best way ����
    Ha ha - Only time will tell.

    I reckon it will split.

    He needs to buy it now so we can find out!

    And we can call it evens if the front splits but the middle sections hold

    The winner gets, hmmm, I don't know, maybe a free Koi Magazine???
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 01-07-2022 at 10:46 AM.

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  22. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Ha ha - Only time will tell.

    I reckon it will split, I really do.

    He needs to buy it now so we can find out!

    And we can call it evens if the front splits but the middle sections hold
    I swear you’re a koi dealer! Haha

    Time will tell indeedy… and always happy to call it evens! Just highlighting that in general, one would expect to see such characteristics merge not split.

    The reason these things can become problematic is what happens to the beni when it merges. If the beni is of good quality, it fills in seamlessly. But there’s always a risk it won’t fully fill in. But that’s the risk you take.

    Likewise, if It did split, one would then be concerned about the state of the kiwa on the front dan and sashi on the back… when too close it can all get a little messy. The space needed to make a clean split would require serious size and volume, this will be dependant on many things, including where on the body it falls as some areas will get more volume than others. More often than not if it doesn’t merge it stays pretty much the same but messier, hence why cosmetic get deployed.

    But again, at this price point, if you get good skin and body structure and you’re personally happy with the pattern - job done. 😊👍

  23. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung-fu-koi View Post
    I swear you’re a koi dealer! Haha

    Time will tell indeedy… and always happy to call it evens! Just highlighting that in general, one would expect to see such characteristics merge not split.

    The reason these things can become problematic is what happens to the beni when it merges. If the beni is of good quality, it fills in seamlessly. But there’s always a risk it won’t fully fill in. But that’s the risk you take.

    Likewise, if It did split, one would then be concerned about the state of the kiwa on the front dan and sashi on the back… when too close it can all get a little messy. The space needed to make a clean split would require serious size and volume, this will be dependant on many things, including where on the body it falls as some areas will get more volume than others. More often than not if it doesn’t merge it stays pretty much the same but messier, hence why cosmetic get deployed.

    But again, at this price point, if you get good skin and body structure and you’re personally happy with the pattern - job done. 
    Edited my post a bit as you were quoting it - I've added a prize for the winner.

    As for splitting or not splitting, can only really go on what I've experienced with my Koi, which have almost all split in similar circumstances, but my Koi are all cheap so maybe the beni quality hasn't been as good as OP's potential purchase. I still have 5 year olds with sashi 3 scales deep!
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 01-07-2022 at 10:52 AM.

  24. #16
    That's not one I'd choose, beni is all over the place, I'd be worried it's going to be lop sided in the future.
    34,000L, 2xSpindrifters, Aqua Sieve2, Nexus300, 24in K1/bead, Momotaro Bakki, 17kwThermotec Inverter

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  26. #17
    Not for me, the head is quite narrow, the whole fish isn't a body shape id go for, the 2 stray bits of beni look quite weak compared to the rest. looking at the website im kinda disappointed with the fish he has for sale tbh, i don't know if he's got too many fingers in too many pies with the other types he is breeding now maybe but the overall quality doesn't look like its what it used to be

  27. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephuk View Post
    Not for me, the head is quite narrow, the whole fish isn't a body shape id go for, the 2 stray bits of beni look quite weak compared to the rest. looking at the website im kinda disappointed with the fish he has for sale tbh, i don't know if he's got too many fingers in too many pies with the other types he is breeding now maybe but the overall quality doesn't look like its what it used to be

    I believe Adam only really lists the fish that are leftover after release on the website as he doesn't usually have many at all on there, most are snapped up via appointments from the releases. To see his best fish you would need to book an appointment on a release date which are very sort after, I booked on the release date for 1pm when the Oakley chags were released, and already the few biggest ones that were up to 35cm were gone!

    The majority of fish listed now are the value range ones he recently started doing which are the cheaper fish.

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  29. #19
    I'd definitely swerve it then if that's the case, for a leftover at that price you could get a far better fish

  30. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephuk View Post
    Not for me, the head is quite narrow, the whole fish isn't a body shape id go for, the 2 stray bits of beni look quite weak compared to the rest. looking at the website im kinda disappointed with the fish he has for sale tbh, i don't know if he's got too many fingers in too many pies with the other types he is breeding now maybe but the overall quality doesn't look like its what it used to be
    Never one to mince his words is our Sephuk

    Interested in more of your thoughts on the body shape.

    To me the head and shoulders look broad comparative to the length, so my opinion of this part is fine.

    But the fish as a whole it strikes me as one that will always be quite short bodied, i.e could be broad but won't hit big numbers length wise, but I can't put my finger on what exactly is making me think that and whether its just in my head.

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