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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    I understand what you are saying, and I am surprised that so many people agree with you, but isn't KOI keeping boring if that is your main battleground?
    I understand that there are differences in climate and water in each country, but in your country, too, carp farming is thriving and they are growing them in their own way. Many people still seem to understand that Koi bred in Japan and farmed carp are on a different level, but the Koi of European origin are the ancestors of NISHIKIGOI.
    Feed more food, let it digest properly and grow in good body shape. We believe that this is the main battleground where many problems can be solved.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 17-06-2022 at 03:27 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    I understand what you are saying, and I am surprised that so many people agree with you, but isn't KOI keeping boring if that is your main battleground?
    I understand that there are differences in climate and water in each country, but in your country, too, carp farming is thriving and they are growing them in their own way. Many people still seem to understand that Koi bred in Japan and farmed carp are on a different level, but the Koi of European origin are the ancestors of NISHIKIGOI.
    Feed more food, let it digest properly and grow in good body shape. We believe that this is the main battleground where many problems can be solved.

    How can parasitic issues and water quality issues be solved by feeding? If you pour pollutants into a river the fish and habitat will be decimated, this is no different to the pollutants being fed into our pond from tap water, we can only do our best to remove the majority of them.

    The issue is, like all living things, if the immune system is tested by things like poor water quality, parasites etc then the host will suffer and get weaker. Once you are going down that route throwing food at it won't make you better. I don't remember seeing people with covid having Big Macs thrown at them.

    All dealers report fish coming from Japan are covered in parasites, so we already have a battle on our hands through adding new fish to ponds and stress causing the immune system to suffer meaning these parasites and issues can thrive. Mix this with poor water quality and you can understand why we need ways to treat the fish and heal them!

    As Dave has already said, you cannot compare our water and conditions to Japan and breeders conditions as it is entirely different! We feed heavily over summer too, I am doing it at the moment, like I did last year, and guess what, I had issues then too and this spring after feeding intensely all summer. At the moment I cannot force the fish to eat any more than they already are but I can guarantee there will still be issues with parasites come spring.

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  4. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    Where are you getting groundwater from?
    Do you have a well or borehole?
    A well I suppose lol. Namely a deep hole that will fill up year round, with a sump pump.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  6. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    How can parasitic issues and water quality issues be solved by feeding? If you pour pollutants into a river the fish and habitat will be decimated, this is no different to the pollutants being fed into our pond from tap water, we can only do our best to remove the majority of them.

    The issue is, like all living things, if the immune system is tested by things like poor water quality, parasites etc then the host will suffer and get weaker. Once you are going down that route throwing food at it won't make you better. I don't remember seeing people with covid having Big Macs thrown at them.

    All dealers report fish coming from Japan are covered in parasites, so we already have a battle on our hands through adding new fish to ponds and stress causing the immune system to suffer meaning these parasites and issues can thrive. Mix this with poor water quality and you can understand why we need ways to treat the fish and heal them!

    As Dave has already said, you cannot compare our water and conditions to Japan and breeders conditions as it is entirely different! We feed heavily over summer too, I am doing it at the moment, like I did last year, and guess what, I had issues then too and this spring after feeding intensely all summer. At the moment I cannot force the fish to eat any more than they already are but I can guarantee there will still be issues with parasites come spring.
    By parasites you don't mean anchor worms or fish lice, but protozoans such as costia and Ichthyobodo, right?

  7. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    A well I suppose lol. Namely a deep hole that will fill up year round, with a sump pump.
    i'd have to dig a long way down to get to good ground water...like all the way to china

  8. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    By parasites you don't mean anchor worms or fish lice, but protozoans such as costia and Ichthyobodo, right?
    costia and ichthyobodo are the same thing....

    flukes are far and away the biggest issue in the UK..
    it's all you ever hear about by youtubers ect...

    they are not treated for in quararantine by most dealers to a high enough level to completely eradiacte them.
    i've ended up with flukes after nearly every fish i've bought...

    marine fish shops used to keep the fish separate from invertibrates in a background level of copper to keep whitespot at bay but enought not cure it.
    i think a lot of dealers retain a low background level of salt in the ponds doing the same with flukes....

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  10. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    By parasites you don't mean anchor worms or fish lice, but protozoans such as costia and Ichthyobodo, right?

    Any parasites that pose an issue, Costia, chilo, flukes etc the list goes on.

  11. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    However, from a fragmentary point of view, the ancestors of NISHIKIGOI are of continental origin (Europe), and there are actually many people in the UK who are active in carp farming and are growing Koi in large size (these will be discussed separately later).

    Very recently, there have been a few people here and there in the Netherlands and Belgium who have achieved close to the same results as those kept in Japan.
    The biggest difference when comparing the experience of KOI rearing in the two countries is that there are few practices in the UK that emphasise the seasonality and immunisation of KOI.
    There are few practices that provide for a solid complete feeding period for this purpose, and the most important issue is to improve them.
    It is one way to learn more about them, and perhaps carp farmers in the UK and Europe are more likely to practice them and to use them as a reference.

    I believe that in the near future, carp breeding, including blood crossbreeding and lake keeping could become more like the koi industry.
    koi (鯉・carp) farming
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 21-06-2022 at 11:50 AM.

 

 
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