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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Does ST remove Chloramines and metals or just Chlorine?

    Does anyone know?
    thanks Steve.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    I think it will remove the Chlorine element but not the ammonia that's in Chloramine
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  7. #4
    To add some further information for anyone interested:

    Chloramine consists of ordinary chlorine plus ammonia so, if water suppliers wish to use chloramine, they first add chlorine to the supply as normal and then simply add ammonia which combines with the chlorine to make chloramine.

    I can do the molecular weights of each if you want the exact proportion but, in round numbers, chloramine is made of two parts chlorine and one part ammonia. Any form of dechlorination based on sodium thiosulphate (i.e. proprietary liquid dechlorinators or sodium thiosulphate crystals or a premade stock solution) will remove the chlorine but leave the ammonia component. Activated carbon purifiers will also remove chlorine or chloramine but I donít know of any purifiers that also remove the ammonia component of chloramine.

    Thereís no need to worry about the amount of ammonia left behind because it's only a low level and will soon be removed by the biofilter. Sensitive people can taste chlorine or chloramine at levels above 0.8 mg/L so this is the highest normally added to domestic water supplies.

    Even a 100% water change with the highest normal level of 0.8 mg/L chloramine in the supply will only leave 0.25 mg/L ammonia in the pond after it had been dechlorinated by sodium thiosulphate or a proprietary dechlorinator based on sodium thiosulphate. That isnít ideal but is within tolerable limits, even at a high pH, and this will be quickly removed by the biofilter.

    The level of ammonia left behind after a more normal water change will be diluted by the volume of water already in the pond so it will only be at a trace level. E.g. the ammonia level in the pond after a 10% change will be 0.025 mg/L and a 20% change will only leave 0.05 mg/L. These levels are only detectable by the best electronic testers and, as I said above, they will quickly be removed by a working biofilter anyway.

  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    To add some further information for anyone interested:

    Chloramine consists of ordinary chlorine plus ammonia so, if water suppliers wish to use chloramine, they first add chlorine to the supply as normal and then simply add ammonia which combines with the chlorine to make chloramine.

    I can do the molecular weights of each if you want the exact proportion but, in round numbers, chloramine is made of two parts chlorine and one part ammonia. Any form of dechlorination based on sodium thiosulphate (i.e. proprietary liquid dechlorinators or sodium thiosulphate crystals or a premade stock solution) will remove the chlorine but leave the ammonia component. Activated carbon purifiers will also remove chlorine or chloramine but I don’t know of any purifiers that also remove the ammonia component of chloramine.

    There’s no need to worry about the amount of ammonia left behind because it's only a low level and will soon be removed by the biofilter. Sensitive people can taste chlorine or chloramine at levels above 0.8 mg/L so this is the highest normally added to domestic water supplies.

    Even a 100% water change with the highest normal level of 0.8 mg/L chloramine in the supply will only leave 0.25 mg/L ammonia in the pond after it had been dechlorinated by sodium thiosulphate or a proprietary dechlorinator based on sodium thiosulphate. That isn’t ideal but is within tolerable limits, even at a high pH, and this will be quickly removed by the biofilter.

    The level of ammonia left behind after a more normal water change will be diluted by the volume of water already in the pond so it will only be at a trace level. E.g. the ammonia level in the pond after a 10% change will be 0.025 mg/L and a 20% change will only leave 0.05 mg/L. These levels are only detectable by the best electronic testers and, as I said above, they will quickly be removed by a working biofilter anyway.
    Thank you very much MS and Gmac,
    If i have understood this correctly my 3 stage dechlorinator and top ups with a stock solution of ST as per your dilution rates from your website should take care of any Chlorine in the pond and Chloramines? Physical ammonia levels are showing as zero via Colombo and API tests, is there any way that the pond water could still have Chloramines levels still which could be the cause of some flashing? All parameters are spot on....i do not know of any way to test for chloramines? to add PD4 tablets are showing zero colour reaction to the pond water but bright pink when testing the tap water....
    Last edited by smartin; 10-06-2022 at 04:47 PM.
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  10. #6
    If the DPD4 test is showing no trace of colour (assuming the test has been done as I describe on my website) then there is no chlorine or chloramine in the water.

  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Thank you Manky Sanke.....
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  13. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    If the DPD4 test is showing no trace of colour (assuming the test has been done as I describe on my website) then there is no chlorine or chloramine in the water.
    Hi mate,

    i always use 5ml of sample water in a test tube, was told the other day it should be 10ml? Have I been over or under testing?

  14. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHudson View Post
    Hi mate,

    i always use 5ml of sample water in a test tube, was told the other day it should be 10ml? Have I been over or under testing?
    10ml of water and look down through the top of the tube placed on a white background.

    Using only 5ml of water will make the DPD4 tablets twice as strong I think you'll find
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  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Just a thought here but may be worth getting Manky Sanke's confirmation, if you only use 5ml of water and the water doesn't go pink instantly surely that could mean there's even less chlorine in the water? Not sure if it works like that so get Manky's thoughts first.
    ________________________________________________
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  18. #11
    This is what I’ve been thinking. That’s it’s not exactly a bad thing. But I have no clue with chemistry

  19. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHudson View Post
    This is what I’ve been thinking. That’s it’s not exactly a bad thing. But I have no clue with chemistry
    I know it's definitely meant to be 10ml but the 5ml theory was just an uneducated suggestion that needs confirmation
    ________________________________________________
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    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
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  21. #13
    Excuse my sudden unannounced disappearance from this thread, I succeeded in breaking my hip on the 12th which meant I had to have a Total Hip Replacement and I've only just been allowed back onto my PC today

    Anyway, the reason I didn't specify a sample amount was because, with a lesser the amount (e.g. 5 ml), the reduced volume and shallower depth of water in the tube will make any colour change appear "brighter".

    On the other hand, if a larger sample size is used (e.g. 10 ml), any colour change will be more diluted by the greater volume and will be less "bright" but the depth in the tube you would look through will be greater so that will compensate for the diluted colour change.

    So, in practice, it don't make bugger all difference.

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  23. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Excuse my sudden unannounced disappearance from this thread, I succeeded in breaking my hip on the 12th which meant I had to have a Total Hip Replacement and I've only just been allowed back onto my PC today

    Anyway, the reason I didn't specify a sample amount was because, with a lesser the amount (e.g. 5 ml), the reduced volume and shallower depth of water in the tube will make any colour change appear "brighter".

    On the other hand, if a larger sample size is used (e.g. 10 ml), any colour change will be more diluted by the greater volume and will be less "bright" but the depth in the tube you would look through will be greater so that will compensate for the diluted colour change.

    So, in practice, it don't make bugger all difference.
    Thanks for the confirmation

    Sorry to hear about your hip, sounds nasty!!!

    Hope you recovery ASAP but at least you have still got your sense of humour
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  25. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hope you have a good recovery Syd,was wondering what happened to you.
    Take care of yourself.
    John

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  27. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Make a speedy recovery Syd.

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  29. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Thank you very much MS and Gmac,
    If i have understood this correctly my 3 stage dechlorinator and top ups with a stock solution of ST as per your dilution rates from your website should take care of any Chlorine in the pond and Chloramines? Physical ammonia levels are showing as zero via Colombo and API tests, is there any way that the pond water could still have Chloramines levels still which could be the cause of some flashing? All parameters are spot on....i do not know of any way to test for chloramines? to add PD4 tablets are showing zero colour reaction to the pond water but bright pink when testing the tap water....
    When you say you have a 3 stage dechlorinator, is it a 3 stage 10 inch model?

    I used to run one, but found that it put up a white flag after about 5 mins and wasn't up to the job for my requirements. I have just ordered another 36" bb, so will be running a 3 stage 10" with 3 pre filters( 2 5 micron and 1 1 micron), followed by a 36" bb with coconut carbon, then to a 4 stage 10" jumbo ( 1 pre filter and 3 carbon blocks), then finally anoth33r 36" bb containing bone char.

    Hopefully this will keep things clean...

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  31. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Excuse my sudden unannounced disappearance from this thread, I succeeded in breaking my hip on the 12th which meant I had to have a Total Hip Replacement and I've only just been allowed back onto my PC today
    I hope you have a speedy recovery Syd

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  33. #19
    All the Best Syd.

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  35. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Hope for a speedy recover Syd, take it easy!

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