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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    When will you resume feeding?

    We have seen various reports this spring both in Japan and in the UK.
    In Japan, the percentage of people who heat during the winter is small, less than 20%, and most interrupt their feeding, so the resumption period is the most important time to be concerned.
    Conversely, is the proportion of people who fully winterize in the UK less than 20 per cent?

    From mid-March for the earliest. People who keep these small KOI seem to resume when the water temperature reaches 15°C.
    It's spring! Started feeding low water temperature feed.
    Low-protein feeds are sold for these uses, and people struggle with a variety of things, such as fluffing the food or starting with powdered feeds. ※In the past, though, it was common to feed cooked barley.

    We found this person reporting a resumption of feeding in early April, although she appears to be in the minority?? in the UK.
    First feed of the year and my new feeding ring

    This person also reported resuming feeding at about the same time.
    I fed my home pond for the first time.

    This person is introduced so that you can see what it looks like throughout the year over a number of years
    29 April in 2019 and 5 May in 2020: 26 April in 2021, when feeding resumed, and this year there were reports of
    The main pond, a few more days before feeding.
    The latest post on 8 May dared to show the one just before resuming feeding when they wanted food.


    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 24-05-2022 at 01:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Not heated and only feed when above 15c? Do these hobbyists only feed 1 month of the year?




    For the record, not heated, started feeding when they were looking interested, end of March if I remember correctly, was still feeding December last year.

    Stopped feeding today as Tric found on a 1 koi acting a bit shy, it was still eating though before adding PP. It took 5 scrapes to find them, no bloody flukes though thank goodness.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    These are just examples of natural water temperatures in Japan, but the time to resume feeding becomes much later at a certain advanced level.
    Late resumption of feeding is a case where there are no frequent replacements, such as when new KOIs are bought or when there are no small TOSAI, but late resumption of feeding does not require extra work as normal feed can be resumed without low water temperature feed or crushed pellets.
    Usually beginners make the mistake of inadvertently feeding more when yellow. It is the return of the cold that we need to be concerned about at this time of year. The return of cold does occur until mid-June in Japan. I reopen every year in June and from then on I imitate the mud ponds of breeders and feed less for two weeks to give the KOI a period when they crave for food.
    resume;.png.png
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 12-06-2022 at 02:34 PM.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Most ambient temperature ponds in the UK would have only just resumed feeding if following the over 15 degree rule. I have got over 2cm of growth so far from my koi already unheated and covered to maintain any gains! They aren't getting fed again till Wednesday so will have had a full week off the food as the temps have risen again, I am expecting them to take my fingers off come Wednesday morning!

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  7. #5
    Hi new to this site and great full for all the advice. I have 6 large 18 koi and around 7 smaller koi of about 5 inches. All look well and healthy but are not eating g hardly anything....any thoughts. The water temp is around 18 to 20 degrees and all water quality tests seem fine. Thanks

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  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yantojarc64 View Post
    Hi new to this site and great full for all the advice. I have 6 large 18 koi and around 7 smaller koi of about 5 inches. All look well and healthy but are not eating g hardly anything....any thoughts. The water temp is around 18 to 20 degrees and all water quality tests seem fine. Thanks
    When we talk about water test if you could please our the results up and we may see some thing that is being missed . For us to help the best way possible we need a few more details if possible.
    Size of pond gallons liters
    What filtration system you are running and how long for
    Is there any other behaviour changes

    I know it seems a lot for a simple question but koi are never simple things and always bloody stressful lol

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Many times we have almost no custom of water quality testing. Water quality is different between Japan and the UK! Although many people say that I have experienced not much difference, except for the occasional blanket weed. I feel the bigger difference is that the custom of controlling KOI movement and judging digestion from faeces has not yet taken root.

    In the water temperature chart shown above, I mentioned advanced, but it is true that most people in Japan often resume feeding in March and April, as indicated by the yellow line. I have also done so when I was a beginner.
    2020年6月8日
    The advanced people here are those who, with this type of collection and their own hands, have achieved results that are second to none of the breeders (i.e. those who raise young TOSAI and NISAI in their own ponds to the level of Grand Champion at nearly 80 cm) in their own ponds.
    These people are generally slow to resume feeding.
    ※These types of people are usually not very public.


    The reason why they are not fed immediately after being placed in a mud pond is because the water is clear immediately afterwards, and from here they deliberately crave food for a week or two and wait for the pond water to become muddy by pecking at the mud at the bottom of the pond, from which point they start feeding in earnest.
    CLIENTS KOI GOING INTO THE MUDPONDS IN JAPAN!!! SOME MONSTERS!


    These are just now, I think, starting to feed after a period of craving and also how they are being trained to want more food.
    We apply these technologies to own ponds as well.

    Apart from that, in the case of KOI with peculiar body shapes that have the potential to over-harbour eggs, they are deliberately released before the full-scale feeding season and then released into the mud ponds.
    Forced egg release
    We may imitate them as well.

    In this way, we incorporate and utilize elements of professional breeders' mud pond husbandry at key points.
    More importantly, a good result can be expected if the annual schedule is imitated. These include setting up a food craving period and starting full-scale feeding once it has settled down, or increasing the movement of the KOI itself so that it can eat and digest more food. And of course, no netting or scare tactics are used from the feeding period until the autumn harvest.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 15-06-2022 at 01:04 PM.

  12. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    These are just examples of natural water temperatures in Japan, but the time to resume feeding becomes much later at a certain advanced level.
    Late resumption of feeding is a case where there are no frequent replacements, such as when new KOIs are bought or when there are no small TOSAI, but late resumption of feeding does not require extra work as normal feed can be resumed without low water temperature feed or crushed pellets.
    Usually beginners make the mistake of inadvertently feeding more when yellow. It is the return of the cold that we need to be concerned about at this time of year. The return of cold does occur until mid-June in Japan. I reopen every year in June and from then on I imitate the mud ponds of breeders and feed less for two weeks to give the KOI a period when they crave for food.
    resume;.png.png
    In this time of year, ...
    Most people go through a period of craving for food and then a little more into the full feeding period.

    Here are some changes in KOI's body shape that I want you all to compare and get to know. I found it last year and explained how it happened, but this latest video is much clearer.


    Many of us aim to double size in the end of summer feeding period コンテスト2020.jpg, but the first step in this process is to notice changes in body shape.
    What should be focused on as a preliminary step to rapid growth of the KOI is the feeding method that requires a broadening of the shoulders and a rising of the back.
    It is not just a question of feeding more.
    It is necessary to create an environment where the KOI can concentrate on feeding as much as possible and not be disturbed.

    And most importantly, KOI will not grow large and rapidly simply by feeding large quantities of food because of their appetite.
    The important thing is to feed with a good digestive capacity and make sure that the food is being absorbed.
    I won't dare to compare them here with many specific British examples, but you should already notice the differences in body shape even in the early stages.
    If you are feeding a large amount of food just because they want it blindly, they often have flesh all over their lower body, a protruding belly, excess flesh on their chest and a thin tail tube.

    Timely and appropriate feeding of these body shape changes and differences is one of our practices that we are all as or more interested in than your water quality testing with test kits.
    Only those that can master them sensitively will be able to grow a small TOSAI into a large enough one to be seen in a different light.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 21-06-2022 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    This is a uk forum. We keep koi in the UK. We have much more experience of doing this than do the Japanese, who mostly keep koi in Japan. Go figure

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  15. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    This is a uk forum. We keep koi in the UK. We have much more experience of doing this than do the Japanese, who mostly keep koi in Japan. Go figure
    Nail on the head! Also, I think it is pretty common within hobbyists in the UK to grow a tosai of 20-30cm to 40+ in our short and often inconsistent summers. I would say a 40-45cm Nisai from Japan is the probably the average-bigger size that come here in the Autumn harvest and we are achieving this with our methods in the UK, so we can't be doing too bad a job

    Of course I am talking about people who are not just pond owners, but koi enthusiasts who have a bit of an understanding of what they are doing. I say a bit, because it takes years of experience to really understand water and habitat management of your own pond, let alone the neighbours!

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  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    Nail on the head! Also, I think it is pretty common within hobbyists in the UK to grow a tosai of 20-30cm to 40+ in our short and often inconsistent summers. I would say a 40-45cm Nisai from Japan is the probably the average-bigger size that come here in the Autumn harvest and we are achieving this with our methods in the UK, so we can't be doing too bad a job

    Of course I am talking about people who are not just pond owners, but koi enthusiasts who have a bit of an understanding of what they are doing. I say a bit, because it takes years of experience to really understand water and habitat management of your own pond, let alone the neighbours!
    I think you are right. I think it will be developed over years of experience and trial and error,...
    On top of that, I mentioned that one of the hobbyists in South Africa who likes to feed has been successful in building a similar body shape to ours in this time of last year, and this time I mentioned it the other day, but very recently I discovered two dealers in Vietnam who are quite good.



    A quick check shows that Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City are located further apart than Plymouth and Aberdeen in the UK, and the correlation between them is unclear, although I myself am not at all familiar with the situation in Vietnam.

    It is quite surprising that each appears to be quite committed to the improvement of the KOI's physical shape and is engaged in friendly competition. Of course, there is room for further consideration, such as the fact that the water temperature is always high in South East Asia and the lack of winter may be a disadvantage, but a dealer in the lower row in particular are constantly reporting on the composition of their food and their feeding style, so it is clear that this is a top priority for them. No doubt they see this as a challenge.
    Until now, the impression was that Southeast Asia was Thailand or Singapore, but it is easy to imagine that the attitude of those suppliers in a leadership role like this would rapidly develop the country.

    I won't dare to compare the UK here, but here is a dealer in a European country (which seems to have a relatively aggressive approach to feeding from what I have seen), who seems to be feeding enthusiastically according to appetite, but the impression is undeniable that the horizontal back is lacking in body mass, with the flesh hanging down to the lower half of the body rather than around the hips. Of course, even taking into account the fact that it is the egg-laying period, I cannot deny the impression that this is the typical body shape of European KOI that I get from the lack of the habit of feeding the maximum amount of food while keeping track of the digestive state when feeding.

    I cannot help but hope that these will be overcome by the emergence of British dealers, who until now have been too keen on business to do much nurturing.

    ※This appears to be yet another dealer in Vietnam. Apparently they know perfectly well how to tame the premise to make even the young TOSAI bigger.
    It is quite amazing that they know the creation and importance of this state of affairs by heart outside of Japan.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 22-06-2022 at 04:58 PM.

  18. #12
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    Yawn, I read the first line.....
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  20. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    Many times we have almost no custom of water quality testing. Water quality is different between Japan and the UK! Although many people say that I have experienced not much difference, except for the occasional blanket weed. I feel the bigger difference is that the custom of controlling KOI movement and judging digestion from faeces has not yet taken root.

    In the water temperature chart shown above, I mentioned advanced, but it is true that most people in Japan often resume feeding in March and April, as indicated by the yellow line. I have also done so when I was a beginner.
    2020年6月8日
    The advanced people here are those who, with this type of collection and their own hands, have achieved results that are second to none of the breeders (i.e. those who raise young TOSAI and NISAI in their own ponds to the level of Grand Champion at nearly 80 cm) in their own ponds.
    These people are generally slow to resume feeding.
    ※These types of people are usually not very public.


    The reason why they are not fed immediately after being placed in a mud pond is because the water is clear immediately afterwards, and from here they deliberately crave food for a week or two and wait for the pond water to become muddy by pecking at the mud at the bottom of the pond, from which point they start feeding in earnest.
    CLIENTS KOI GOING INTO THE MUDPONDS IN JAPAN!!! SOME MONSTERS!


    These are just now, I think, starting to feed after a period of craving and also how they are being trained to want more food.
    We apply these technologies to own ponds as well.

    Apart from that, in the case of KOI with peculiar body shapes that have the potential to over-harbour eggs, they are deliberately released before the full-scale feeding season and then released into the mud ponds.
    Forced egg release
    We may imitate them as well.

    In this way, we incorporate and utilize elements of professional breeders' mud pond husbandry at key points.
    More importantly, a good result can be expected if the annual schedule is imitated. These include setting up a food craving period and starting full-scale feeding once it has settled down, or increasing the movement of the KOI itself so that it can eat and digest more food. And of course, no netting or scare tactics are used from the feeding period until the autumn harvest.
    He gives us the latest on what's been going on this year!
    Visiting the JUMBO Mud Pond! (BIG KOI)

    As you can see, the feeder is still empty and not running. It looks like KOI is in the middle of a training process from here to gradually increase the movement of the food craving.

    We apply and value this process in our own ponds as well.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 27-06-2022 at 12:44 PM.

  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    This is how he is trying to evoke the feeding instincts of the KOI by applying mud pond rearing, which we also introduced last year.


    As a result, when KOIIs are successfully tamed and trained to concentrate only on food, their digestive capacity increases and they grow rapidly. The initial changes in body shape appear from the neck to the shoulders. A successful KOII is one that has been able to put meat up to the tail tube at harvest time in autumn. Our criteria for judging HINPYOKAI are body shape, quality and pattern, in that order.

    If everyone has a common criterion of value, it is clear who is a success and who is not. It is not clear what we should be judging if we just put together a list of skinny KOI before the challenge. Is it the person's wealth? Is it the depth of the person's connection to a particular dealer?

    In July, August and September, the most important months of the feeding season, we do not net or scoop nearly as much as we do during the growing season in the mud ponds. Once their feeding instincts have been sapped and they become wary and frightened, we have to start all over again, wasting an entire season.

    Because of these differences in customs between Japan and UK, I often see of people who still net or touch them in bowls in this time of year, but as I have said many times, there are also a fact that there are garden centres KOI keepers in Japan who do not care about such things and keep their pets all year round.

    However, it really pains me when I see people who keep TATEGOI, which are very promising and have a good future with paying a certain amount of outlay in the UK, but do not care about them like the owners of garden centre level KOI.

  22. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    I have reduced my feeding to every 2 hours roughly now and slightly reduced what I was feeding to begin with. I noticed the koi are more ravenous when the next feed comes, and actually now they are eating more per serving as they was eating the initial amount within about 4 minutes, the same amount that took 10 minutes before I swapped to 2 hour feeds and dropped the amount. Now I am feeding more than I was when feeding every hour or so, and they are eating it in half the time.

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  24. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    I have reduced my feeding to every 2 hours roughly now and slightly reduced what I was feeding to begin with. I noticed the koi are more ravenous when the next feed comes, and actually now they are eating more per serving as they was eating the initial amount within about 4 minutes, the same amount that took 10 minutes before I swapped to 2 hour feeds and dropped the amount. Now I am feeding more than I was when feeding every hour or so, and they are eating it in half the time.
    That's fantastic! If more people were more interested in feeding and more concerned about them being digested, I hope it would become more popular that the correlation between KOI body shape and experience is something we are all working on as a top priority instead of we do not having any habit to check water by test kits.
    Blind feeding based on judging appetite alone will never result in an ideal body shape.
    Once interest in feeding and digestive status is established, you should naturally be reluctant to net or move the KOI during feeding periods. We look forward to the day when we can share these values soon without me interfering every step of the way

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