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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    We are still waiting for you to be the distributor of these foods to the UK for the same price as in Japan so we can enjoy them too at a fair price
    You have to try things and learn and get smarter, not just hope for the best, or else you will create a situation where people who put business first will be overwhelmed. In Japan, hobbyists are not overly dependent on breeders and dealers, but have independent opinions and always compete on a level playing field.

    It is difficult to discern the KIWA and nature of BENI when it is so red, but those who know can see it.
    https://youtu.be/LFSPmkkSSwc
    TOSAI at a similar level. In Japan, they do their own colour enhancement, so this is sometimes more in demand.
    https://youtu.be/baxAC9kgrSQ
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 06-05-2022 at 12:37 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    According the the hikari website, the colour enhancing food has no negative impact on the shiroji https://www.hikari.info/koi/k_11.html

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  4. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    According the the hikari website, the colour enhancing food has no negative impact on the shiroji https://www.hikari.info/koi/k_11.html
    Pinch of salt,
    It will probably have less impact on shiroji than some colour foods that heavily rely on carotenoids.

    They also claim to get 120% protein utilisation from saki growth.
    Nevermind the laws of physics
    Its the mysticism their culture engenders

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  6. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Funnily enough the colour & growth foods both have 40% protein! They do a 'pure white' food as well for Shiroji at the end of the growth season but never seen it here, about to find out if google tells me of availability in this country

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  8. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    Funnily enough the colour & growth foods both have 40% protein! They do a 'pure white' food as well for Shiroji at the end of the growth season but never seen it here, about to find out if google tells me of availability in this country
    it's available, absolute koi and koiwatergarden ltd have it.
    i did see a youtube video somewhere where they mentioned using it,
    might have been one of koi wholesale/rickys...

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  10. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Just seen it, £125 for 5kg! Think I will try the JPD instead with that being so much! By the way, I checked the date on my bag of SH colour food earlier and it's 03/24, I picked it up in March so pleased I got a nice long life on it

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  12. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    Just seen it, £125 for 5kg! Think I will try the JPD instead with that being so much! By the way, I checked the date on my bag of SH colour food earlier and it's 03/24, I picked it up in March so pleased I got a nice long life on it
    the pure white isn't necessary to get good shiroji imo, it might just help speed it up in time for a show.
    but buying anything hikari in retail bags you are on to a loser...
    just watch all that JPD waste build up while you are feeding it lol!

    i'd spilt a 15kg bag of saki hikari colour with you as i only need 5kg - 7.5 kgs,
    but by the time you factor in petrol it would be cheaper just to buy the whole bag on my own lol!

    i'm hoping to pick up a bag of colour food with a discount at the national koi show on the 2nd & 3rd july.
    or split a bag with someone there
    Last edited by davethefish1; 07-05-2022 at 09:37 AM.

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  14. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    According the the hikari website, the colour enhancing food has no negative impact on the shiroji https://www.hikari.info/koi/k_11.html
    Basically, colour enhancer food turn a white background yellow.
    It is normal to bleach the skin by returning it to normal food as the water temperature drops.
    He says two months is enough for that period of time.
    https://youtu.be/qtuXM7JnueI?t=1334

    ※The ZNA National is held in December and the AJKS is held slightly differently in January or February of the following year after the year before the corona outbreak,
    so the timing of suspending the colour enhancer food is slightly different if the target is to exhibit at those shows.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 07-05-2022 at 12:18 PM.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    the pure white isn't necessary to get good shiroji imo, it might just help speed it up in time for a show.
    but buying anything hikari in retail bags you are on to a loser...
    just watch all that JPD waste build up while you are feeding it lol!

    i'd spilt a 15kg bag of saki hikari colour with you as i only need 5kg - 7.5 kgs,
    but by the time you factor in petrol it would be cheaper just to buy the whole bag on my own lol!

    i'm hoping to pick up a bag of colour food with a discount at the national koi show on the 2nd & 3rd july.
    or split a bag with someone there
    I have a 5k bag already, although I do predict with the plans to really nail the growth season I will need another one and probably 10k of growth! Especially as we are almost up to temp already a month or so earlier than last year! By the end of this coming week I would expect to be at 20, and may use the heater to help reach it quicker on the hot days.

    The fish are currently bathing in Fluke M for the second day. I turned the pump off and just left them in the pond with the dose for about 4 hours before turning everything back on and opening the bypass on the drum. The filter was full of water with the Fluke M in so it was not allowed to dry etc and hopefully nail any in there on some dislodged slime or something. Bathing them for an hour or 2 today I think before I will switch everything back on again with the half dose and do the same again tomorrow.

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  17. #30
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Well that's my first 15kg of growth on the way from coastal. I think i might mix it with something but not sure, ill see how long it lasts.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  19. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    I have a 5k bag already, although I do predict with the plans to really nail the growth season I will need another one and probably 10k of growth! Especially as we are almost up to temp already a month or so earlier than last year! By the end of this coming week I would expect to be at 20, and may use the heater to help reach it quicker on the hot days.

    The fish are currently bathing in Fluke M for the second day. I turned the pump off and just left them in the pond with the dose for about 4 hours before turning everything back on and opening the bypass on the drum. The filter was full of water with the Fluke M in so it was not allowed to dry etc and hopefully nail any in there on some dislodged slime or something. Bathing them for an hour or 2 today I think before I will switch everything back on again with the half dose and do the same again tomorrow.
    i'm just about at 20C now, gets up to 20.1C then drops back to 19.9C over night.
    i might start running my elctro heater on economy 7 soon just to hold it above 20C, but want it to get to +21/22C first....

    iw as going to dose mine the flukesolve today, but i havn't seen any flashing, so i will do it tomorrow.
    but am going to do the same... turn off filters and pulse them for a minute everyhour to keep the shower wet and give them a portion of the flukesolve.
    but maximum dose in the pond so filters can't break it down...

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  21. #32
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Well that's my first 15kg of growth on the way from coastal. I think i might mix it with something but not sure, ill see how long it lasts.
    15kg saki hikari balance...?

    or if wanting a cheaper staple growth food to pad it out with how about JPD fujiyama £55 for 10kg...?
    https://queni-koi.co.uk/koi-food-c10...fujiyama-p6435

    Last edited by davethefish1; 07-05-2022 at 03:35 PM.

  22. #33
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    What out of these ingredients enhances the colour?
    Crude Protein
    Crude Fat
    Crude Fiber
    Moisture
    Ash
    Phosphorus
    min. 35%
    min. 3%
    max. 5%
    max. 10%
    max. 13%
    min. 1.0%
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  23. #34
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    T.internet says:
    shrimp, krill, paprika, marigold flower and spirulina
    To enhance colour. So why not buy that and add it to fish food. Anyone looked into it to save a few quid?
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  24. #35
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Tinternet also says Shrimp colour enhancers are:
    astaxanthin, beta-carotene and lutein.

    ...just need to find bulk supplies and beat the koi tax.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  25. #36
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Astaxanthin is the red enhancer. Recommended doses for a human is 6-8mg per day so let's say 0.5mg per adult koi per day. 10 fish in a pond is 5mg a day so 150mg to add to a bag of food for a month. Even if you bought spirulina in those amounts from Holland and Barrett it's only gonna cost you £4! Goodness knows how much less if you bought in bulk!

    Astaxanthin is $13 (£10) for 1kilos on Alibaba
    Last edited by Alburglar; 07-05-2022 at 06:16 PM.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  27. #37
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Took me 9 minutes to figure that out, from zero knowledge and 4 Google's. Come on people we must try harder to beat the koi tax.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  29. #38
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    I do have some organic spirulina powder which I dusted on the food last year but didn't make any noticeable difference. I think its the hikari germ which is unique to saki hikari that makes the difference with the food In general, maybe its more digestible so they actually reap the rewards more than other foods?

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  31. #39
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    15kg saki hikari balance...?

    or if wanting a cheaper staple growth food to pad it out with how about JPD fujiyama £55 for 10kg...?
    https://queni-koi.co.uk/koi-food-c10...fujiyama-p6435

    Yep the balance would be the sensible route as been on that over winter, but being a tight arse i think I’ll go with the JPD while I’m still below 20, 75/25 with the SH growth, then gradually switch it round
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  33. #40
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    Astaxanthin is the red enhancer. Recommended doses for a human is 6-8mg per day so let's say 0.5mg per adult koi per day. 10 fish in a pond is 5mg a day so 150mg to add to a bag of food for a month. Even if you bought spirulina in those amounts from Holland and Barrett it's only gonna cost you £4! Goodness knows how much less if you bought in bulk!

    Astaxanthin is $13 (£10) for 1kilos on Alibaba
    just be careful how much of the concentrated colour you use


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