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  1. #101
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    We have mentioned before that Japanese breeders often feed fisheries feeds such as Nissin Marubeni and JA. The premise of those is that they're produced before the season every year and in limited production, but it seems that some products are already sold out of the UK's fisheries feed as well.
    https://bulkfishpellets.co.uk/

    As one of the type of Japanese hobbyists who seek practical benefits rather than name or brand image, I would like to know if these products are really inferior to Japanese fisheries feeds, together with the BP Milling products that I introduced earlier, which are quite particular about. Incidentally, the prices of these products seem to be slightly cheaper than those available in Japan.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    We have mentioned before that Japanese breeders often feed fisheries feeds such as Nissin Marubeni and JA. The premise of those is that they're produced before the season every year and in limited production, but it seems that some products are already sold out of the UK's fisheries feed as well.
    https://bulkfishpellets.co.uk/

    As one of the type of Japanese hobbyists who seek practical benefits rather than name or brand image, I would like to know if these products are really inferior to Japanese fisheries feeds, together with the BP Milling products that I introduced earlier, which are quite particular about. Incidentally, the prices of these products seem to be slightly cheaper than those available in Japan.
    if we go down this route we may as well feed the fish sheep nuts, or whatever is the cheapest possible bulk protein meal.
    we are trying to feed the best quality food, not only for growth, but health and condition.

    i think you just don't like to see all this saki hikari going out of Japan, driving the price up for you
    Atsumi's just had a koi food delivery...


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  4. #103
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai m00ny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    We have mentioned before that Japanese breeders often feed fisheries feeds such as Nissin Marubeni and JA. The premise of those is that they're produced before the season every year and in limited production, but it seems that some products are already sold out of the UK's fisheries feed as well.
    https://bulkfishpellets.co.uk/

    As one of the type of Japanese hobbyists who seek practical benefits rather than name or brand image, I would like to know if these products are really inferior to Japanese fisheries feeds, together with the BP Milling products that I introduced earlier, which are quite particular about. Incidentally, the prices of these products seem to be slightly cheaper than those available in Japan.
    Taken from that website:
    S&W Bulk Fish Feed are the sole distributor of Aller Aqua pellets in the UK, the perfect carp pellets.

    They are manufactured in Denmark from what I can understand. The growth feed for carp on Aller Aqua's website is stated as having 40% protein and 24% fat. That fat content seems way too high to me, I don't think I've seen any "koi food" with anywhere near that amount. Also struggling to find ingredients which would put me off straight away anyway.

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  6. #104
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00ny View Post
    Taken from that website:
    S&W Bulk Fish Feed are the sole distributor of Aller Aqua pellets in the UK, the perfect carp pellets.

    They are manufactured in Denmark from what I can understand. The growth feed for carp on Aller Aqua's website is stated as having 40% protein and 24% fat. That fat content seems way too high to me, I don't think I've seen any "koi food" with anywhere near that amount. Also struggling to find ingredients which would put me off straight away anyway.
    I see, so in the UK, there are no loopholes for those in the know like us, and there are no trustworthy products from home, so you have to accept a price difference of about three times the price due to transport, tariffs and intermediary margins?

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  8. #105
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai m00ny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    I see, so in the UK, there are no loopholes for those in the know like us, and there are no trustworthy products from home, so you have to accept a price difference of about three times the price due to transport, tariffs and intermediary margins?
    I'm not certain if I'm honest, the UK brands of koi food I know about seem to be importing it from elsewhere, you have to think they'd have savings to make if they were able to source it here.

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  10. #106
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00ny View Post
    I'm not certain if I'm honest, the UK brands of koi food I know about seem to be importing it from elsewhere, you have to think they'd have savings to make if they were able to source it here.
    as with nearly everything in the UK we make nothing anymore...
    there is a culture here now of hating everything british, even for the british...

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  12. #107
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    as with nearly everything in the UK we make nothing anymore...
    there is a culture here now of hating everything british, even for the british...
    Even some of the British

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
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  14. #108
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    It's a pity that people like him at bp milling, who are so enthusiastic about making food, are shunned simply because it's not for NISHIKIGOI.

    I would like to continue to watch as I have seen what Japan's top hobbyists are interested in and doing, such as trying to distribute freshly made food like he does, and including special oil and mixing it just before feeding.

    If he starts making food exclusively for NISHIKIGOI with the sole motive of making money, though, that's something I wouldn't like.

    Why do I care about this? One of the reasons is that, as I mentioned in the explanation of the list in the video, the now leading KOI industry SAKAI HIROSHIMA and NARITA were originally carp farmers until two generations ago.

  15. #109
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Even some of the British

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

    the answer is not to subsidise british industry like it did in the 1970's,
    and even if they raised import costs by a 50% tariff.
    i reckon uk companies would just up the price to match saki again and make bigger profits.

    what would be a game changer would be if a large group of All England koi show winners, actually used (not just endorsed) a UK made and manufactured food.
    that was the same price saki hikari is in Japan, ie: less than 5 a kilo...

    but if every show winner uses saki hikari every hobbiest will aspire to feed the same...

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  17. #110
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    but if every show winner uses saki hikari every hobbiest will aspire to feed the same...
    But in those shows, body size gain from feeding is largely ignored, so it's nonsense, no matter which food they use?
    Every year, but especially this year's, is impossibly thin.

  18. #111
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Very interesting thread, great to see some intervention from AByer with his wealth of knowledge and expertise (and nice of him to offer the purchase options for SH) Thanks Adam i think he has said what we want to hear that SH is worth the extra if you really want to feed your babies the best..... seems to me using SH at certain times of the year optimising the differing selections like colour / growth etc is the way to get the best out of the food is the way to go and supplement with another decent brand inbetween times at non critical times to help neutralise costs..... AS and Medikoi foods and Burtons health i like and don't use anything else, not used SH as yet but with young fish and some others that need a helping hand due to illness last year SH sounds like a good booster especially during the warmer months..... only time will tell once you guys have trialled SH for some time, will be interesting to read your views in a few months time to see if the premium is really worth it...... think we just like spoiling our babies
    Last edited by smartin; 23-05-2022 at 08:45 AM.
    2200 gallons,infinity window,BD
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  20. #112
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    true, saki isn't the cheapest for summer feeding,
    especially if you are looking to push growth rates by feeding up to 3% of body weight daily...

    but i think i'll probably feed saki right through winter,
    or at least hikari, as i don't feed much at that time of year anyway, and a single 15kg bag of sinking hikari wheatgerm is only 94.99...

    Last edited by davethefish1; 23-05-2022 at 08:50 PM.

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  22. #113
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    true, saki isn't the cheapest for summer feeding,
    especially if you are looking to push growth rates by feeding up to 3% of body weight daily...

    but i think i'll probably feed saki right through winter,
    or at least hikari, as i don't feed much at that time of year anyway, and a single 15kg bag of sinking hikari wheatgerm is only 94.99...

    That would last me 6-7 winters!

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  24. #114
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    That would last me 6-7 winters!
    same here...5kgs would be more than enough for me...opportunity for a group buy

  25. #115
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Here are a couple of pictures of fish from yesterday after a few weeks on the SH colour now.

    284156352_542881854124858_5802248890114522246_n.jpg275727405_1546821909032608_2251759303450987414_n.jpg

    First the Isa Showa from Keepers koi which has grown 2cm since adding it back in late March. This fish is a Nisai so pretty happy with that growth already, and certainly got more in the body. I have added a picture next to it of when it was added too. I should have covered the top to remove the glare but was scraping and she's a lunatic jumper!

    Secondly here is my Sansai Isa Showa which has also grown around 2cm and added a bit of body. it was 43cm when I got it in March last year and 48cm at the end of the year so 2cm of growth already this year is a positive sign to say the least, and you can see for yourself how vibrant the colours are looking with more sumi appearing too.

    284469340_751299959219115_3145324735936527263_n.jpgE88115B4-758B-4C2D-9481-CA7F96FE5A5E.jpeg

    The picture with the lighter bowl is the Queni picture, one to the right of that is the day it arrived and in my measuring bowl was yesterday. Again, not the best picture as was only quick but you can see the better width on the fish now and certainly looks more vibrant to me. Unfortunately this is the most recent pic I have of it in the bowl and was over a year apart.
    Last edited by samp09; 31-05-2022 at 05:03 PM.

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  27. #116
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Looking good mate
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    Some koi

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  29. #117
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    so i've been feeding about 200g a day in my pond plus a few extras like melon and lettuce,
    as it's not all about growth for me, i want them to have a varied healthy diet too.
    i was feeding 300g a day but cut back due to them starting to look a bit porky rather than body building.

    i was trying to extrapolate how much food ricky is feeding the hi utsuris he has.
    i think he said they are about 35cm and has 350 pieces in a pond feeding 1.2kgs a day...

    a ball park guide on weight to length i use gives a weight of 0.73kgs for a 35cm fish.
    if you take a conservative estimate of just 0.45kg per fish that gives
    0.45kg x 350 = 157.5 kgs so 1% of that would be 1.57 kgs.
    so feeding less than 1% of body weight?

    i also have the koi control app,
    and thier food calculator reccomends 275g to 423g per day based on 21C to 28c temperature (currently 23C)

    so i think the idea of feeding 3% body weight a day might work with some real jumbo tosai that have some astonishing growth,
    but certainly in my pond i think i'll be feeding between 1-2% body weight and adjust feeding to how much they can healthily eat and how the fishes body shape looks.

    Don't blame me for the names thats all down to the missus lol!

    Last edited by davethefish1; 16-06-2022 at 10:45 AM.

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  31. #118
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    so i've been feeding about 200g a day in my pond plus a few extras like melon and lettuce,
    as it's not all about growth for me, i want them to have a varied healthy diet too.
    i was feeding 300g a day but cut back due to them starting to look a bit porky rather than body building.

    i was trying to extrapolate how much food ricky is feeding the hi utsuris he has.
    i think he said they are about 35cm and has 350 pieces in a pond feeding 1.2kgs a day...

    a ball park guide on weight to length i use gives a weight of 0.73kgs for a 35cm fish.
    if you take a conservative estimate of just 0.45kg per fish that gives
    0.45kg x 350 = 157.5 kgs so 1% of that would be 1.57 kgs.
    so feeding less than 1% of body weight?

    i also have the koi control app,
    and thier food calculator reccomends 275g to 423g per day based on 21C to 28c temperature (currently 23C)

    so i think the idea of feeding 3% body weight a day might work with some real jumbo tosai that have some astonishing growth,
    but certainly in my pond i think i'll be feeding between 1-2% body weight and adjust feeding to how much they can healthily eat and how the fishes body shape looks.

    Don't blame me for the names thats all down to the missus lol!


    Patch, Spot and Stripey?

    How old is your missus, 5 ???

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  33. #119
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Finished watching the Koi Talk video.

    Did you hear what they said about Saki Balance vs Saki Growth?

    Where the pond on Growth was growing much faster than the Balance pond, yet the Balance pond was using twice as many pellets?

    I find it difficult to accept, but even if exaggerated it is still an eye opener.

    But they didn't mention the age of the Koi - mine are mostly 5 years plus now, and don't know if Growth will perform that much better than Balance. MikeH on here has had great growth using just Balance. Personally I prefer the Balance ingredients - You would think they are better for the Koi compared to the fat content of Growth.

    How many people have just chucked their Balance on a shelf and ordered Growth?


    Btw, for winter feeding I just continue with Balance down to 8C.

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  35. #120
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Patch, Spot and Stripey?

    How old is your missus, 5 ???
    some names were made up on the spot lol...
    i usually call them b*&^%$d fish when they won't do as theyy should lol!

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