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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Naoki,

    You say people aren't interested in whether koi digest the food we feed and you say that feeding koi below 12C will cause digestive problems so could you please answer the following:

    Do you accept what I put in my post above that "carp use energy to stay alive in winter (heart, gills, osmoregulation etc.) and, in a natural lake, will occasionally eat small amounts to top up their energy reserves"

    Do you accept "it's another myth that fish are too stupid to know when the water is too cold for them to digest food. The enzymes that control the metabolism of food and the appetite are linked so that they match, regardless of the temperature. So, when the temperature falls below the point where they can digest, they have no appetite and just simply don't attempt to eat anyway."

    Do you accept "Fish have evolved to instinctively know what's best for them. If a fish in the wild wanted to eat, it would do so and fish have evolved quite successfully following their natural instincts. If carp continued to eat when it was too cold with the consequence that the food rotted in their gut and caused them serious health problems or death then they wouldn’t have survived evolution and the species would now be extinct."
    A high biology expert like you sometimes goes into great detail about the biology of CARP, but to begin with, it seems to me that equating wild Koi with NIHIKIGOI is as unreasonable as equating ping-pong pearl goldfish with the biology of the original crucian carp.

    If their biology is what you describe as the same, wouldn't they be kept and fed like this throughout the winter in many parts of the UK as we entrust the KOI to mud ponds in Japan. and hopefully get bigger?
    Winter Fishery Development

    I think it is necessary to understand what is wild and what is not, which has been lost in the process of breeding NISHIKIGOI to a higher quality.

  2. #22
    Naoki,

    Opinions vary as to exact timescales but there seems to be general acceptance that fish, as a species, evolved over 400 million years ago and the Cyprinidae family evolved in East Asia about six million years ago. Which means that fish were pretty much set in their ways when the initial breeding of carp for colour development and body shape began in Japan about 200 years ago.

    I never refer to myself as an expert in biology but I have studied koi physiology since 2006 and, in all that time, Ive never found any difference in the digestive system between the carp family (Cyprinidae) and Nishikigoi but Im always willing to learn. So Id be pleased for you to tell me what genetic differences have been bred into, or out of, the digestive system of Nishikigoi in 200 years that overwrites its ancestors previous six million years of evolution.

    Also, are koi kept in mud ponds in Japan during winter? If so, can you tell me what measures are taken to prevent them feeding on plants or insects when the water temperature falls below 12C?

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  4. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    He is feeding his fish at 8 degrees which is the reason they are behaving how they are. It is clear as day there is pellets on the surface of his pond which they are eating, there is no predation going on, they are eating the pellets he has fed. It really is not difficult to see.
    You were certainly right.
    He was feeding.

    Here is my correspondence with him.

    ================================================== =
    atsumi naoki
    1 day ago
    You say the water temperature is 8C and in the video it looks like they are feeding.
    Is it being fed?

    t s
    19 hours ago
    Yes! I feed in very small quantities even in the winter �� I used to cut out feeding completely in the winter, but with the help of koi shops and people I know, I've started feeding in very small quantities and my spring starts have been smoother!

    atsumi naoki
    9 hours ago
    @t s Thank you very much! You say it's a very small quantities
    How much and how often do you feed it? What kind of food do you feed? I'm sorry for asking so many questions.

    t s
    6 hours ago
    @atsumi naoki
    I feed my koi with S or M size balance food! The amount depends on the condition of the koi and the weather and temperature of the next day but I feed a quarter of one time of the feeds we do in the summer once a day to once every three days. (In summer, I feed them two to three cups of Growth ➕Colour Enhancing food four to five times a day!) If the water temperature is low but stable, they will eat and swim, but if it suddenly gets cold and the water temperature drops, they will not eat or swim even if you feed them! I'm not sure if it's because it's relatively warm where I live, but it's a good way to get resumed without worrying about spring time��.

    atsumi naoki
    1 hour ago
    @t s helpful! Thank you very much!!!

    JAP RICE CUP
    The cup used here is the one we are all familiar with when measuring rice,
    He says one quarter of two or three cups, which is probably less than one cup of this.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 26-01-2022 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Right so think the whole forum is now waiting for an apology for your month's of feeding crap ????

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  7. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Right so think the whole forum is now waiting for an apology for your month's of feeding crap ????
    So maybe we are doing it the Japanese way after all as they do feed under 15 and come out of winter better

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  9. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    So much for all his expertise then e .

    Am still waiting for pictures of his set up

    Feel like am being told how to drive off some one that dosent have a licence

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ajm; 26-01-2022 at 05:13 PM.
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  11. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Yes, it seems that they do that to prevent it from sinking to the bottom. I apologise for that.
    Anyway, from conversations with other people,
    you can see that most Japanese hobbyists keep their KOI unheated in winter.

  12. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    I cannot, i just cannot take anymore
    2200 gallons,infinity window,BD
    Evolve 40k combi,amalgam UV
    2x20k pondxpert, Skimmer,
    shower,ASHP

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  14. #29
    So, since this thread is about UK hobbyists keeping koi in unheated water, as is the case in Japan, can we now carry on feeding them the small amounts they want whenever they are obviously looking for food without risking harming them?

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  16. #30
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Naoki,

    Also, are koi kept in mud ponds in Japan during winter? If so, can you tell me what measures are taken to prevent them feeding on plants or insects when the water temperature falls below 12C?
    マンキーさん
    Firstly, the NIGATA mud ponds that you know so well will be buried under deep snow during the winter months and all KOI will be moved to indoor ponds or sold and given away.
    Nevertheless, in some coastal areas of NIGATA and in the western part of Japan, the KOI are sometimes allowed to overwinter in mud ponds.
    They are not a positive choice, but rather a way of securing a place to stay, and in the case of KOI's that we really don't want to lose, we usually winter them in indoor ponds.
    In any case, wintering in mud ponds is not common in NISHIKIGOI.
    Even if they are kept in mud ponds during the winter, the artificial feeds do not start until mid-April or May. Until then, they cannot be involved in pecking at the natural products of the pond.
    The reason for this is that there should be no other food available to them than moss and algae yet.

    ※This is a bit of a tangent, but when the mud pond is newly filled with water and the KOI are released, they are not fed immediately, but are left for a week or two.
    The water is clear in the beginning but KOI pokes around the bottom of the pond looking for food and waiting for it to get muddy.
    I don't know the exact reason, but they say it is an important preparatory step to control the whole ecosystem of the pond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    So, since this thread is about UK hobbyists keeping koi in unheated water, as is the case in Japan, can we now carry on feeding them the small amounts they want whenever they are obviously looking for food without risking harming them?
    What does "risking harming them" mean?
    Does it mean that they will become emaciated and malnourished?
    Does it mean indigestion and damage to internal organs?
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 27-01-2022 at 01:43 AM.

  17. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    So much for all his expertise then e .
    Am still waiting for pictures of his set up
    Feel like am being told how to drive off some one that dosent have a licence
    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Ajmさん
    I was going to tell you about them on another occasion, but since you keep asking me, I'll tell you about a few...
    As I told you before, I lived in a different place from where the pond was located and left KOI keeping, and a few years ago my eldest brother asked me to close the pond, which had been half neglected, and I complied.
    The remains of the photo of the filter tank sold at that time.
    I know it's not much of an introduction to the setup you are talking about, but I had to. All the video footage of the pond is on videotape and needs to be converted. There's not much there either. In those days, we didn't have the habit of recording every single thing....

    Please note that my KOI career is concentrated in the very first half of my life. The other day I visited my birthplace for the first time in a long time and unearthed a bit of photos. I was going to use this picture for the theme "TOSAI should grow twice as big as possible as soon as possible" ,but for your request.

    This is the first KUMONRYU I ever sold properly, I bought it for 30 when I was a teenager, I grew it up by extreme summer feeding and the following year I entered it in the All Japan Show on the advice of someone. As soon as put it in the show VAT, black color faded, so it was not selected.
    九紋龍1.JPG九紋龍2.jpg受賞.JPG
    The following year I made it even bigger and the black colour did not fade and it won the prize. I think I was the youngest winner of the All Japan prize at that time.
    After that I left it with a dealer and when it was over 70cm, the owner of Kent Koi Ko, where Keith used to work, offered me 4500 to buy it, but I refused because I wanted to win the All Japan Best in Variety.
    It lost part of dorsal fin in an accident and was not able to show it again at the All Japan, but again he wanted it and we sold it for 600 I think including the trophy. Even 600 was a lot of money for me at that time. However, if I had sold it for the price before that, I would have been a brilliant KOI dealer. Unfortunately, I was not blessed with the talent to do so.

    When I realised that I could make money by growing KOIs that I had my eye on, I dared to collect all the cheap KOIs I could find.
    This AIGOROMO was purchased from a Japanese garden centre for 13.00, won an award at the RINYUKAI SHOW and eventually sold for 400 to 450 when it was reach at 55cm. As I recall, it was introduced this story late Maurice Cox of KOI UK had a web page on the subject, but that was more than 10 years ago.
    Aigoromo1.jpgAigoromo2.jpg

    I got the most money at KOI with this TANCHO SHOWA. It was selected from the Grow and Show Contest, which was the first of its kind anywhere at the time, and was priced at 65 pounds (10,000 yen) each, which was higher than the TOSAI I was collecting at the time. I bought it reluctantly, because of the uniform price rule.
    丹頂昭和1.JPG丹頂昭和2.JPG丹頂昭和3.JPG
    As a matter of course I grew doubled the size of the KOI first by extreme feeding in the summer and then when it reached 45cm the following year, I left it in a friend's pond because I had the chance to go to England. A few years later it grew to over 65cm and the new manager of the KOI SHOP where I was working offered to buy it for 2600 when I showed photo, so I sold it to him as I thought it would be a good way to fund my return to Japan. The friend who took care of me the TANCHO SHOWA is now working on getting it over 75cm, and advised me not to sell it until the SUMI was fully established, However, due to my experience with KUMONRYU when I was a teenager, I sold the TANCHO SHOWA as I thought it would be worth a TATEGOI.
    丹頂昭和4.JPG
    I don't know how much the shop sold for it afterwards, but I think this TANCHO SHOWA was on the back cover of Nigel Caddock's NISHIKIGOI INTERNATIONAL magazine at the time.
    As you can see, all three of the KOIs I've mentioned have probably been to the UK and belonged to someone somewhere, but that's a story too old to tell.

    Since returning to Japan, I have not been involved in the KOI for a long time as I have had to take care of my pond in some periods and not in others, but I have recently moved to a new house and I am now considering what to do with it in the future, even though it is a much smaller space (it is in the middle of Tokyo) than my old pond .
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 27-01-2022 at 05:14 AM.

  18. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    マンキーさん
    Firstly, the NIGATA mud ponds that you know so well will be buried under deep snow during the winter months and all KOI will be moved to indoor ponds or sold and given away.
    Nevertheless, in some coastal areas of NIGATA and in the western part of Japan, the KOI are sometimes allowed to overwinter in mud ponds.
    They are not a positive choice, but rather a way of securing a place to stay, and in the case of KOI's that we really don't want to lose, we usually winter them in indoor ponds.
    In any case, wintering in mud ponds is not common in NISHIKIGOI.
    Even if they are kept in mud ponds during the winter, the artificial feeds do not start until mid-April or May. Until then, they cannot be involved in pecking at the natural products of the pond.
    The reason for this is that there should be no other food available to them than moss and algae yet.

    ※This is a bit of a tangent, but when the mud pond is newly filled with water and the KOI are released, they are not fed immediately, but are left for a week or two.
    The water is clear in the beginning but KOI pokes around the bottom of the pond looking for food and waiting for it to get muddy.
    I don't know the exact reason, but they say it is an important preparatory step to control the whole ecosystem of the pond.



    What does "risking harming them" mean?
    Does it mean that they will become emaciated and malnourished?
    Does it mean indigestion and damage to internal organs?
    I'm not sure why you're asking these question because I've said that feeding below 12C is normal behaviour and won't cause a digestive problem.

    In your post #18 above, you said:
    "Feeding at water temperatures below 12C (54F) is a disadvantage due to digestive problems"

    My question:
    "..can we now carry on feeding them the small amounts they want whenever they are obviously looking for food without risking harming them?"

    Was to confirm that you no longer consider feeding below 12C (54F) to cause digestive problems.

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  20. #33
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [COLOR=#333333
    :
    [/COLOR]"Feeding at water temperatures below 12C (54F) is a disadvantage due to digestive problems".

    This is something you will often see written in all Japanese introductory and specialist books, and probably assumes that winter feeding should be stopped altogether.
    In fact, three posts ago, he went to the trouble of quoting this crap from somewhere or introducing it himself.

    So, in most parts of Japan, a water temperature of 12C is the most common time to stop feeding, and this expression is correct and will probably never change, including in an enlightening way.

    However, in areas where the minimum water temperature does not fall below 8 degrees Celsius, there is a method of feeding a very small amount of food and keeping it moving even when the temperature falls below 12 degrees Celsius.

    Quote Originally Posted by [COLOR=#333333
    :[/COLOR]
    My question:
    "..can we now carry on feeding them the small amounts they want whenever they are obviously looking for food without risking harming them?"
    .
    If you do not intend to stop feeding in areas where the minimum water temperature does not fall below 8C
    There is no risking harming if you continue to feed them, very small quantities, when they are obviously looking for food or rather, for the purpose of making they look for it with the purpose of not stopping the digestive system.

    If you will stop feeding completely for the winter period where the minimum water temperature is 5 or 6C, if feed them when the water temperature is below 12 degrees Celsius whether they are looking for food or not, it can causing damage to the digestive system because it will sink to the bottom and become immobile later on.

    This is how I see it.

  21. #34
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    マンキーさん
    Related to that, it's another myth that fish are too stupid to know when the water is too cold for them to digest food. The enzymes that control the metabolism of food and the appetite are linked so that they match, regardless of the temperature. So, when the temperature falls below the point where they can digest, they have no appetite and just simply don't attempt to eat anyway.

    I don't know if this is genetically related, but it is a common experiential learning among professionals and amateurs involved in KOI in Japan that the more sophisticated NISHIKIGOI, I don't know if the word "stupid" is correct, but often do not have the same digestive capacity as their appetite in low water temperatures. In my experience, the low water temperatures where the discrepancy between appetite and digestion is most pronounced are probably about between 14C and 19C.

    Fish have evolved to instinctively know what's best for them. If a fish in the wild wanted to eat, it would do so and fish have evolved quite successfully following their natural instincts. If carp continued to eat when it was too cold with the consequence that the food rotted in their gut and caused them serious health problems or death then they wouldn’t have survived evolution and the species would now be extinct. So why do koi in a pond need us to impose artificial temperature limits when we stop them eating if they need to?

    Wild fish will do just that. This also applies to all the KOI varieties that have a near-wild ecology and can survive in the semi-wild. However, please do not forget that the NISHIKIGOI is a type of fish which, as you say, would not have survived the evolutionary process of extinction, but which has been bred, selected, protected and nurtured by humans.

    So I’d be pleased for you to tell me what genetic differences have been bred into, or out of, the digestive system of Nishikigoi in 200 years that overwrites its ancestors’ previous six million years of evolution.

    Rather than 200 years, it would be more accurate to say the last 40 to 50 years.
    Examples and proofs of this will be given in due course.

  22. #35
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai rolo's Avatar
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    Here we go again. Boring

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  24. #36
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Luminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    Ajmさん
    I was going to tell you about them on another occasion, but since you keep asking me, I'll tell you about a few...
    As I told you before, I lived in a different place from where the pond was located and left KOI keeping, and a few years ago my eldest brother asked me to close the pond, which had been half neglected, and I complied.
    The remains of the photo of the filter tank sold at that time.
    I know it's not much of an introduction to the setup you are talking about, but I had to. All the video footage of the pond is on videotape and needs to be converted. There's not much there either. In those days, we didn't have the habit of recording every single thing....

    Please note that my KOI career is concentrated in the very first half of my life. The other day I visited my birthplace for the first time in a long time and unearthed a bit of photos. I was going to use this picture for the theme "TOSAI should grow twice as big as possible as soon as possible" ,but for your request.

    This is the first KUMONRYU I ever sold properly, I bought it for 30 when I was a teenager, I grew it up by extreme summer feeding and the following year I entered it in the All Japan Show on the advice of someone. As soon as put it in the show VAT, black color faded, so it was not selected.
    九紋龍1.JPG九紋龍2.jpg受賞.JPG
    The following year I made it even bigger and the black colour did not fade and it won the prize. I think I was the youngest winner of the All Japan prize at that time.
    After that I left it with a dealer and when it was over 70cm, the owner of Kent Koi Ko, where Keith used to work, offered me 4500 to buy it, but I refused because I wanted to win the All Japan Best in Variety.
    It lost part of dorsal fin in an accident and was not able to show it again at the All Japan, but again he wanted it and we sold it for 600 I think including the trophy. Even 600 was a lot of money for me at that time. However, if I had sold it for the price before that, I would have been a brilliant KOI dealer. Unfortunately, I was not blessed with the talent to do so.

    When I realised that I could make money by growing KOIs that I had my eye on, I dared to collect all the cheap KOIs I could find.
    This AIGOROMO was purchased from a Japanese garden centre for 13.00, won an award at the RINYUKAI SHOW and eventually sold for 400 to 450 when it was reach at 55cm. As I recall, it was introduced this story late Maurice Cox of KOI UK had a web page on the subject, but that was more than 10 years ago.
    Aigoromo1.jpgAigoromo2.jpg

    I got the most money at KOI with this TANCHO SHOWA. It was selected from the Grow and Show Contest, which was the first of its kind anywhere at the time, and was priced at 65 pounds (10,000 yen) each, which was higher than the TOSAI I was collecting at the time. I bought it reluctantly, because of the uniform price rule.
    丹頂昭和1.JPG丹頂昭和2.JPG丹頂昭和3.JPG
    As a matter of course I grew doubled the size of the KOI first by extreme feeding in the summer and then when it reached 45cm the following year, I left it in a friend's pond because I had the chance to go to England. A few years later it grew to over 65cm and the new manager of the KOI SHOP where I was working offered to buy it for 2600 when I showed photo, so I sold it to him as I thought it would be a good way to fund my return to Japan. The friend who took care of me the TANCHO SHOWA is now working on getting it over 75cm, and advised me not to sell it until the SUMI was fully established, However, due to my experience with KUMONRYU when I was a teenager, I sold the TANCHO SHOWA as I thought it would be worth a TATEGOI.
    丹頂昭和4.JPG
    I don't know how much the shop sold for it afterwards, but I think this TANCHO SHOWA was on the back cover of Nigel Caddock's NISHIKIGOI INTERNATIONAL magazine at the time.
    As you can see, all three of the KOIs I've mentioned have probably been to the UK and belonged to someone somewhere, but that's a story too old to tell.

    Since returning to Japan, I have not been involved in the KOI for a long time as I have had to take care of my pond in some periods and not in others, but I have recently moved to a new house and I am now considering what to do with it in the future, even though it is a much smaller space (it is in the middle of Tokyo) than my old pond .
    Did you take those photographs with a potato?

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  26. #37
    Naoki, I have far more important things to do than keep returning to a circular argument but Ill have, hopefully, one last try.

    You said:
    This is something you will often see written in all Japanese introductory and specialist books, and probably assumes that winter feeding should be stopped altogether. In fact, three posts ago, he went to the trouble of quoting this crap from somewhere or introducing it himself.

    I hope you werent referring to me with that comment!!


    You said:
    In my experience, the low water temperatures where the discrepancy between appetite and digestion is most pronounced are probably about between 14C and 19C.

    Despite the fact that I keep telling you that Cyprinidae evolved in East Asia about six million years ago and that there is no significant physiological difference in the digestive system between those and the variety of carp that we call nishikigoi today, you keep referring to differences between appetite and digestion. A great many people feed koi whenever they are actively looking for food regardless of the temperature and koi in lakes feed whenever they want to so could you please explain what are these differences?


    I said:
    So Id be pleased for you to tell me what genetic differences have been bred into, or out of, the digestive system of Nishikigoi in 200 years that overwrites its ancestors previous six million years of evolution.

    You replied:
    Rather than 200 years, it would be more accurate to say the last 40 to 50 years. Examples and proofs of this will be given in due course.

    Thats between 1970 and 1980. Can you please provide the proof?

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  28. #38
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    I said to Johnathan the other day, despite the fact that my dogs which are Pomeranians are actually descendants to Japanese/German spitz through selective breeding and now a entirely different breed, strangely enough they still need to eat the same despite effectively being a mutated form of the previous breed, bred through selecting the 'runts' of the litter and then through other characteristics.
    In fact, if my daughter threw food to them all day I think they would eat all day too!

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  30. #39
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminosity View Post
    Did you take those photographs with a potato?
    unearthed→Finding old photos

  31. #40
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Naoki, I have far more important things to do than keep returning to a circular argument but I’ll have, hopefully, one last try.

    You said:
    This is something you will often see written in all Japanese introductory and specialist books, and probably assumes that winter feeding should be stopped altogether. In fact, three posts ago, he went to the trouble of quoting this crap from somewhere or introducing it himself.

    I hope you weren’t referring to me with that comment!!


    You said:
    In my experience, the low water temperatures where the discrepancy between appetite and digestion is most pronounced are probably about between 14C and 19C.

    Despite the fact that I keep telling you that Cyprinidae evolved in East Asia about six million years ago and that there is no significant physiological difference in the digestive system between those and the variety of carp that we call nishikigoi today, you keep referring to differences between appetite and digestion. A great many people feed koi whenever they are actively looking for food regardless of the temperature and koi in lakes feed whenever they want to so could you please explain what are these differences?

    I said:
    So I’d be pleased for you to tell me what genetic differences have been bred into, or out of, the digestive system of Nishikigoi in 200 years that overwrites its ancestors’ previous six million years of evolution.

    You replied:
    Rather than 200 years, it would be more accurate to say the last 40 to 50 years. Examples and proofs of this will be given in due course.

    That’s between 1970 and 1980. Can you please provide the proof?
    Until the 60's to early 70's even the KOI that won the Grand Champion of Japan was not weak. Since that time, the quality of KOI has rapidly improved, and in parallel, the weakness of KOI has become more pronounced. It is a common experience that this tendency is sometimes manifested in the desire for brighter colours and whiter skin.

    There are two possible reasons for the weakening of NISHIKIGOI. The first is that inbreeding and repeated culling has led to the breeding of fry that would otherwise not survive.

    Along with the decline in digestion at low water temperatures as a characteristic of frailty, everyone pointed out the tendency that KOI used to be resistant to transport but no longer are. Whether this is directly linked to the degeneration of the gills is not known, but in the past KOI would be fine even after being scooped up into a bowl and left for hours, but nowadays they start nosing up after 20 to 30 minutes. It was also common knowledge among the people that the tolerance to hypoxia has changed significantly in this way.

    After that, the best quality NISHIKIGOI, the largest of which was only around 70cm, were reintroduced to the wildness by some of the major big breeders to increase their maximum size.
    This story will be told in detail later.

    But first of all, please be aware of the difference between KOIs that can live in the wild and those that cannot.

    First of all, the video will show you these latest trendy varieties.

    They are very recent and heterogeneous in the context of the 200-year history of NISHIKIGOI.

    The KARASHIGOI and the so-called light green CHAGOI that you know so well since Narita's predecessor collaborated with amateur hobbyists to produce from the Common Carp, are not modern NISHIKIGOI at all.

    This is because they were intentionally introduced to the wild blood just recently and were wild carp only a few generations ago.

    Feeding behaviour of TOSAI during low water temperatures in winter.


    This behaviour is unthinkable in a normal modern NISHIKIGOI.

    I personally encountered the first generation of the now common CHAGOI when I was young, just at the time when there was a lot of talk about the weakening of the NISHIKIGOI, and I was astonished by the difference in their biology.

    They have a good appetite all year round.
    In summer, they never leave their feeding area in the mud pond.
    They grow very fast, sometimes even in winter.

    If a KOI has these characteristics, it is possible to understand the evolutionary history of Koi over 6 million years, as you say, and the history of Koi in the wild.

    A fish in the wild wanted to eat, it would do so and fish have evolved quite successfully following their natural instincts.

    I don't deny that this is exactly what is happening also with the Common Carp being farmed all over the UK.


    I will now take some time to explain the current state of inbreeding in NISHIKIGOI and the differences in constitution that result from the culling process.

 

 
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