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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Battery back up power

    So some thing has just messed up my whole year already. The shed has had a power cut unknowingly to me and had just wiped out a little over half my fry tank . Including the special one for little legs with the heart on . So after the Mrs put my dummy back in and made me pick all my toys up when I said I was wrapping it all in .

    To move forward and make sure this can never happen again what is the best way to run a spare battery pack air pump

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  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    An uninterruptible power supply (UPS) - it doesn't have to be complex, as the pump isn't sensitive. It just has to cover the time and power consumption. Usually only the critical components are covered - you've covered that's the air pump so what is the wattage and voltage?

    Most air pumps that plug into the mains are AC 230V. An UPS handles all the technical gubbins - you plug it into the mains, then plug the pump into the UPS. When the power goes - the UPS's internal batteries take over and the pump continues.
    You may come across a couple of things with UPS:
    * VA - this is the rating for consumption - probably best to use a calculator: https://www.apc.com/shop/uk/en/tools/ups_selector/
    * Online vs Offline - Online is better than Offline for sensitive components but as this isn't sensitive an offline would be fine.

    An UPS calculation is basically - how much voltage and current (power) is required for how long, which is long enough to cover any outage.

    UPS also tend to be able to signal that the power is out to a monitoring device - so you could make a small Arduino that uses a GSM phone to text the power is out and also text any of the warning alerts from the UPS such as power low or battery needs replacement.

    The DIY alternative is - assuming a separate small *DC* air pump:
    * have a battery charger that maintains a 12V car battery with trickle charge.
    * have a mains current detector on the main airpump
    * have a small Arduino/pi powered by the 12V battery using a off the shelf voltage regulator that checks the mains current detector.
    * when the power goes the current disappears, the Arduino detects and then switches the 12V relay to the 12V DC air pump to supply air.
    * when the power comes back on - the current appears in the mains current detector and the Arduino/pi then switches the DC air pump off. The 12V charger then starts up (as the mains is back on) and the power continues.

    That way you have no mains electrical work, and standard mains electrical components that can be bought off the shelf and a little Arduino programming - but with a simple shield to power the relay.

    If you then use a leisure battery rather than a car battery, it's likely to last a long time as it doesn't have to convert ("invert") the DC back to AC like an UPS so it's more efficient.

    The other alternative is a stand by generator. Power goes, generator starts (one hopes) and all is good for the tank of fuel. Power comes back on and the generator shuts down. All automatic.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Christ mate what a disaster feel gutted for you.

    But infortunately these things happen, cant advise but as said something to keep an air pump going as the filter would be ok.
    I dont use air but maybe something I should consider.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Thanks nick so some thing like this ?

    Or if I've completely misunderstood I do apologise been up most the night

    https://www.serversdirect.co.uk/p/13...RoCYQ4QAvD_BwE

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Christ mate what a disaster feel gutted for you.

    But infortunately these things happen, cant advise but as said something to keep an air pump going as the filter would be ok.
    I dont use air but maybe something I should consider.
    This whole koi keeping thing is a mare of a learning curve mate . Last year I learnt the hard way that having a back up heater is a must . This year a back up battery airpump is 100% a must . .

    Dread to think what lesson I'll learn next year

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Thanks nick so some thing like this ?

    Or if I've completely misunderstood I do apologise been up most the night

    https://www.serversdirect.co.uk/p/13...RoCYQ4QAvD_BwE

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    You will need to calculate the power consumption of the pump and how long you want the coverage to work. UPS can be anything from 10 minutes coverage to hours - depending the capacity.

    However yes - that's basically the sort of thing, just need the calculation to tell you how big it needs to be.

    Personally I would over-size the UPS a little. Batteries degrade over time and cold weather reduces capacity. Also in the case of a repeat outage, the battery has not got time to recharge.

    If you look at this page: apc-server-ups it shows the battery time in minutes at the rated load (power consumption).

    VA is close to Watts (let's gloss over the differences).

    So if you have a 30W pump then a 325VA UPS, so in theory that's 300W/30W or 10 hours. In reality that's less (1/2 it) and I wouldn't bank on more than a couple of hours to be safe.

    The APC calculate shows for a 2 hour coverage with 13% spare capacity for a 30W pump, that's going to be 400VA. So 325VA seems reasonable for 30W for example.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  12. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Christ mate what a disaster feel gutted for you.

    But infortunately these things happen, cant advise but as said something to keep an air pump going as the filter would be ok.
    I dont use air but maybe something I should consider.
    Just short of 50 fish lost well and truly destroyed us like . Little legs ain't happy to say the least been up most the night trying to find a fish with a heart on and that was her baby and she loved it . . . After I got over my hissy fit with the help of our lass and samp just pushed me on to build bigger better set up get it right and working top dog

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    Freddyboy the legend

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    You will need to calculate the power consumption of the pump and how long you want the coverage to work. UPS can be anything from 10 minutes coverage to hours - depending the capacity.

    However yes - that's basically the sort of thing, just need the calculation to tell you how big it needs to be.
    Cheers mate ill get on it now . Thinking of buying a whole dedicated setup ie new small watt airpump ect just to have sat there then if say the next outage is caused by the old airoump it's completely separate problem

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Had a similar thing a few weeks ago,our electric grill tripped the mains fuse when Mrs was doing the T,reset it ok so thought I should check grow ons in the garage all was ok.

    Next morning noticed the plug in rcd for the heaters was tripped and I forgot to check it the previous night.
    Temp had dropped 3 deg but fish ok.
    John

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  18. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Had a similar thing a few weeks ago,our electric grill tripped the mains fuse when Mrs was doing the T,reset it ok so thought I should check grow ons in the garage all was ok.

    Next morning noticed the plug in rcd for the heaters was tripped and I forgot to check it the previous night.
    Temp had dropped 3 deg but fish ok.
    It's so naughty and so easy for it to go wrong like . . If it was the main pond it wouldn't have been like this with the temps . It was 24 in grow on so just no reserve oxygen for them

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Was it just the shed tripped or whole house?
    John

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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Was it just the shed tripped or whole house?
    Shed and upstairs . Weird how they have wired this house lol

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    really gutted for you mate.
    must have been a nightmare.

    i've been looking at getting a power failure alarm something like these for a while, as a decent size UPS is expensive and i'm never out of the house long.
    so i wouldn't be aware that the power had gone off in the filterhouse unless i went in there, as it's on a separate rcbo.
    at least i'd know about it and could try and sort something out.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/ControlloCa.../dp/B07ZFWSCXR

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-I...y%2C64&sr=1-51
    Last edited by davethefish1; 18-01-2022 at 10:19 AM.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    I would be looking for the cause of the trip,why not have a very low watt light in the shed maybe red on all the time that you can see from the house.
    I can see the small red light on the drum from the kitchen so I know elecs on.
    John

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  28. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    I would be looking for the cause of the trip,why not have a very low watt light in the shed maybe red on all the time that you can see from the house.
    I can see the small red light on the drum from the kitchen so I know elecs on.
    The shed is built on the house mate have to walk thought the shed to get out the back door it 2ft from kitchen door to fry tank . Just been busy with life in kitchen and front room and haven't noticed anything. I've gone over absolutely every thing and can't find a fault any where !!!!!

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  30. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    really gutted for you mate.
    must have been a nightmare.

    i've been looking at getting a power failure alarm something like these for a while, as a decent size UPS is expensive and i'm never out of the house long.
    so i wouldn't be aware that the power had gone off in the filterhouse unless i went in there, as it's on a separate rcbo.
    at least i'd know about it and could try and sort something out.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/ControlloCa.../dp/B07ZFWSCXR

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-P...7VMFV7XL&psc=1
    Ooo I do like them dave quick simple and cheap !! Could be worth a proper look as well as the ups .

    The jeboa 35 air pump says 20watts so but that's still a hell of a load of air for the tank so could buy a even smaller pump to let the ups work a little longer

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Got you Aj that is frustrating,as said why not run a light from grow on into kitchen so you can see if elecs on,could be a 1 watt xmas light or anything.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Got you Aj that is frustrating,as said why not run a light from grow on into kitchen so you can see if elecs on,could be a 1 watt xmas light or anything.
    Aye not a bad idea I'll definitely set some it up for the outdoor one as still want that done this week

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    really gutted for you mate.
    must have been a nightmare.

    i've been looking at getting a power failure alarm something like these for a while, as a decent size UPS is expensive and i'm never out of the house long.
    so i wouldn't be aware that the power had gone off in the filterhouse unless i went in there, as it's on a separate rcbo.
    at least i'd know about it and could try and sort something out.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/ControlloCa.../dp/B07ZFWSCXR

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Automatic-I...y%2C64&sr=1-51

    The problem with WiFi is that most WiFi networks need the router in place to work. The if the USB stick acts like a separate WiFi network itself, then the mobile phone has to switch to that WiFi network to be of any use.

    If you can get an alarm that has two pieces so that the alarm sits in the house and the battery powered sensor sits in the shed, that would be ideal. That protects the shed but if the power goes out then nothing is going to help unless you have manual air pump without a battery backup. Unless there's a socket in the house on the same spur that goes to the shed?
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  38. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    You will need to calculate the power consumption of the pump and how long you want the coverage to work. UPS can be anything from 10 minutes coverage to hours - depending the capacity.

    However yes - that's basically the sort of thing, just need the calculation to tell you how big it needs to be.

    Personally I would over-size the UPS a little. Batteries degrade over time and cold weather reduces capacity. Also in the case of a repeat outage, the battery has not got time to recharge.

    If you look at this page: apc-server-ups it shows the battery time in minutes at the rated load (power consumption).

    VA is close to Watts (let's gloss over the differences).

    So if you have a 30W pump then a 325VA UPS, so in theory that's 300W/30W or 10 hours. In reality that's less (1/2 it) and I wouldn't bank on more than a couple of hours to be safe.

    The APC calculate shows for a 2 hour coverage with 13% spare capacity for a 30W pump, that's going to be 400VA. So 325VA seems reasonable for 30W for example.
    That's brilliant thanks nick Great explanation for even me lol cheers mate greatly appreciated

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    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

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